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  1. #1
    SSGGLASS is offline Senior Member
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    Default Breath control- Anatomical match vs. Biomechanical

    Really have been having my eyes opened to to new stuff with my new reading assignment.

    For those who are familiar- can someone elaborate on the phases of breathing in anatomical matched breathing vs. biomechaincal breathing during exertion? I have a lot of my patterns built with my reverse power breathing and the valsalva maneuver for my slow lifting, but i am working to refine the patterns with my explosive lifts.

    On a side note from last week, i got that lat firing on the left side again with the swings thanks to all who responded. I used one arm swings with a JS band and a bit of partner assisted tough love with a stick. volo! the lat is firing properly again. Pain is a quick teacher!

  2. #2
    mc
    mc is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SSGGLASS View Post
    Really have been having my eyes opened to to new stuff with my new reading assignment.



    On a side note from last week, i got that lat firing on the left side again with the swings thanks to all who responded. I used one arm swings with a JS band and a bit of partner assisted tough love with a stick. volo! the lat is firing properly again. Pain is a quick teacher!
    are you sure it wasn't firing? or just that you weren't particularly aware of it?
    glad the band idea worked.

    best
    mc
    mc, phd, cscs,
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  3. #3
    mc
    mc is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    ps - adam, i don't know if you saw any of Mike's thoughts on your post about this - if you look at the comments section here from your comment down.

    mc
    mc, phd, cscs,
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  4. #4
    mc
    mc is offline Senior Member
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    Default anatomical matched breathing vs. biomechaincal breathing?

    Adam,

    may i ask where you got these terms?

    i've seen antatomical as opposed to physiological:

    the anatomical will describe the physical position of the body parts at different stages of breathing. EG, inhale= spine extension, rib opening. Physiologically what occurs in an inhalation, eg, contraction of diaphram causes increase in thoracic cavity; intercostals also move those ribs, both causing a volume change (increase) in the lungs, which causes presure to drop, and air to be drawn in.

    (this came up in the cardio discussion)

    but this framing of anatomical/biomechanical is new to me. keen to hear more. breathing certainly has my attention right now

    best
    mc
    mc, phd, cscs,
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  5. #5
    MikeC in NZ RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Do you mean anatomical vs paradoxical breathing?

    I often struggle to remember which is which but if i recall correctly anatomical follows the bodies movement so with a snatch you breath out at the bottom as you bend over and force the air from your lungs and then breath in as you stand and expand, ie typically for GS snatches.

    To me it would make sense to breath anatomical with explosive moves as you don't want tension restricting speed, whereas with max strength when you want a stable base and more protection then paradoxical or reverse breathing is better.

    So if I am doing say presses for reps I breath anatomically but for max presses I do paradoxical, although I don't exactly know when its best to swap over, ie, for sets of 3, 5 or 8 when does one way become better

    Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs.

    PS. I have a friend who does GS but follows the same anatomical breathing in a relaxed manned for max deadlifts. I tend to think this is asking for an injury

  6. #6
    MitchSA is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    "So if I am doing say presses for reps I breath anatomically but for max presses I do paradoxical, although I don't exactly know when its best to swap over, ie, for sets of 3, 5 or 8 when does one way become better"

    I do the same but also do not know when its best to swap.. But i can share this with you..If i press the 32kg all 'loose' and breath anatomically i can hit over 25reps.. but that does nothing for my strength, so when im practising my 'strength' and im using a lighter bell ( in my case a 32kg) i imagine it to be heavier, therefore i breath paradoxical and keep my entire body super tense whislt trying to crush the handle to dust. working with reps from 3 -5 This training carries over to 36 , 40 , 44kg presses!

    If i press the 40kg loose and breath anatomical I hit 10 reps! but this does not carry over to the 48kg one bit! but many, many, many sets of 36kg and 40kg presses using the correct tension drills for low reps only carries over the the big bell.

    Hope this makes sense..

    Mitch

  7. #7
    mc
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    Default just fyi

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC in NZ RKC View Post
    Do you mean anatomical vs paradoxical breathing?

    I often struggle to remember which is which but if i recall correctly anatomical follows the bodies movement so with a snatch you breath out at the bottom as you bend over and force the air from your lungs and then breath in as you stand and expand, ie typically for GS snatches.
    Hi, actually, paradoxical breathing is just when you expand your lungs and squish your abs to breath, rather than "normal" breathing where the diaphram comes down and the abs go out. a shock - sudden intake of breath - can cause paradoxical breathing.

    What you're describing is very much the type of breathing many rowers recommend: inhale on the work cycle (the drive) and exhale on recovery (slide) when the knees come into the chest and the diaphram is getting squished anyway. They refer to this as "entraining" breathing - though research (latest being 94 it seems) didn't shown much in the way of performance difference between entraining/synching and just any kind of breathing the rower wanted (kinda a surprise). Though here's something neat: cyclists, when they coord their breathing with the down stroke seem to be more efficient.

    To me it would make sense to breath anatomical with explosive moves as you don't want tension restricting speed, whereas with max strength when you want a stable base and more protection then paradoxical or reverse breathing is better.

    So if I am doing say presses for reps I breath anatomically but for max presses I do paradoxical, although I don't exactly know when its best to swap over, ie, for sets of 3, 5 or 8 when does one way become better

    Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs.

    PS. I have a friend who does GS but follows the same anatomical breathing in a relaxed manned for max deadlifts. I tend to think this is asking for an injury
    Last edited by mc; 12-23-2008 at 05:43 AM.
    mc, phd, cscs,
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    instructor reviews :: begin2dig :: twitter :: facebook

    coaching/assessments in person and via web cam - meditatus radix/caveat emptor (i.e. "i'm not young enough to know everything" - o.wilde)

  8. #8
    Brad Nelson RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Default Adam

    I will show you some differences so you can feel them when you are down in January...

    you around today? Let's finalize this thing.

    Brad

  9. #9
    mc
    mc is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Nelson RKC View Post
    I will show you some differences so you can feel them when you are down in January...

    you around today? Let's finalize this thing.

    Brad
    Brad
    it would actually be nice for the rest of us to get some clarification about the terms being used and what they mean, since we're all just guessing at what's beind described.

    Can you / would you clarify?

    thanks
    mc
    mc, phd, cscs,
    rkc ii, ck-fms, z-health master trainer, precision nutrition level 1
    instructor reviews :: begin2dig :: twitter :: facebook

    coaching/assessments in person and via web cam - meditatus radix/caveat emptor (i.e. "i'm not young enough to know everything" - o.wilde)

  10. #10
    Pavel Tsatsouline Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchSA View Post
    "So if I am doing say presses for reps I breath anatomically but for max presses I do paradoxical, although I don't exactly know when its best to swap over, ie, for sets of 3, 5 or 8 when does one way become better"

    I do the same but also do not know when its best to swap.. But i can share this with you..If i press the 32kg all 'loose' and breath anatomically i can hit over 25reps.. but that does nothing for my strength, so when im practising my 'strength' and im using a lighter bell ( in my case a 32kg) i imagine it to be heavier, therefore i breath paradoxical and keep my entire body super tense whislt trying to crush the handle to dust. working with reps from 3 -5 This training carries over to 36 , 40 , 44kg presses!

    If i press the 40kg loose and breath anatomical I hit 10 reps! but this does not carry over to the 48kg one bit! but many, many, many sets of 36kg and 40kg presses using the correct tension drills for low reps only carries over the the big bell.

    Hope this makes sense..

    Mitch
    Com. Mitch, this would make a good article.

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