Matthew Green UK
New member
I train a football (soccer) team once a week and would like to try using the 15:15 or 36:36 for sprintervals- as I call them.
Any ideas on how to do this?
Any ideas on how to do this?
VWC Protocols for sprinting?
- Thread starter Matthew Green UK
- Start date
C
Chiggers
Guest
Matthew,
VWC is based on a bell. It doesn't necessarily carrover that you can elicit the same effect by substituting the snatch for any other excercise. I know that Kenneth mentioned back before the book that rowing was one of the few that works instead of the snatch. There are very specific reasons for this that you can understand from reading the book.
That being said sprint intervals could be a good thing for your team. Just be aware that they will not be VWC. They will as you say be sprint intervals and have a good effect on your young athletes.
Chiggers
VWC is based on a bell. It doesn't necessarily carrover that you can elicit the same effect by substituting the snatch for any other excercise. I know that Kenneth mentioned back before the book that rowing was one of the few that works instead of the snatch. There are very specific reasons for this that you can understand from reading the book.
That being said sprint intervals could be a good thing for your team. Just be aware that they will not be VWC. They will as you say be sprint intervals and have a good effect on your young athletes.
Chiggers
I would say to find the distance run in six minutes. Divide up the distance and have them run that during the 15:15 intervals. When they can't run this, call it a day. Retest cadence as needed. When they have hit 80 sets, move on to the 36:36 protocol.
But what do I know?
Kenneth Jay
New member
josef> that is one way of doing it that will work.
there are several ways of figuring out the distance to run but this is the one that follows the VWC the most...
You need to work up to a 1 min. all out sprint by increasing the speed every minute. the 5th or 6th minute should be the all out minute and that distance is want counts. Say you run 400m in the finial minute of sprinting. then you just divide that distance with 4 = 100m and that is your distance to cover every 15 sec.
It works very well.
/KJ
Ideal Paradigm
New member
Kenneth Jay:
For Josef's method, that would mean that you're running all out for the whole duration of the six minutes then, correct?
As for the other method that you mentioned, how would you determine how far and/or how fast you are to run the "warm-up" distances before the fifth or sixth minute? I get the idea behind what you're saying, you're essentially establishing the cMVO2 test but for sprinting.
Am I correct in saying that in the case for sprinting, distance covered will be analogous to Snatch repetitions with the Kettlebell for cMVO2, since both would be tested withing the parameter of one minute?
The cMVO2 numbers are based on specific numbers in the first four minutes to help elicit VO2 Max. How fast would you have to travel in meters/second, or feet/second in the first four minutes before going all out in the last minute?
C
Chiggers
Guest
I stand corrected by the man.
Matthew Green UK
New member
Great, Im very happy with that!
The competitive aspect of 20 testosterone filled guys should make it very interesting!
The competitive aspect of 20 testosterone filled guys should make it very interesting!
C
Chiggers
Guest
Matthew,
Please update as to how it works out. I am interested. Wish my coaches had of known this kind of thing back when i was playing rugby.
Cheers,
Chiggers
brian.goldstein
New member
JMHO but this sounds like a recipe for needless amounts of effort and pain.
Me? personally I'm lazy and there's a whole lot of great research by the top Euro teams out there on how they prepare their players that I'd look to first before trying to apply a protocol designed for one thing to something drastically different in terms of demand.
(And if you want to be even lazier - go over to elitefts and do a Q&A search of "soccer" and "mark mclaughlin" - b/c he's done all that work already.)
Me? personally I'm lazy and there's a whole lot of great research by the top Euro teams out there on how they prepare their players that I'd look to first before trying to apply a protocol designed for one thing to something drastically different in terms of demand.
(And if you want to be even lazier - go over to elitefts and do a Q&A search of "soccer" and "mark mclaughlin" - b/c he's done all that work already.)
Matthew Green UK
New member
Ive seen, amongst others, Chelsea FC training and it involves static stretching pre-workout and pre-match, bodyweight drills with atrocious form, ridiculously inappropriate running drills and overall bootlike mentality. This is one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the world and it beggars belief how archaic their training is.
I also read an article recently that included details of how Usain Bolt uses a leg press machine, Nicolas Anelka benches 12kg (yep honestly) and James Blake does a 'lot of sit ups as the core is important'.
The more I see of high level athletes being trained, the more laughable it is.
I also read an article recently that included details of how Usain Bolt uses a leg press machine, Nicolas Anelka benches 12kg (yep honestly) and James Blake does a 'lot of sit ups as the core is important'.
The more I see of high level athletes being trained, the more laughable it is.
A famous quote of Thomas Alva Edison is that "Genius is one percent inspiration 99 percent perspiration." I am guessing pro athletes sweat at least twice as much as geniuses so maybe it is 99.5 for athletes. All the same pushing yourself hard on a regular basis on a bad training plan will get results. Some of the strongest and fittest guys I have ever met do all kinds of stuff wrong, what they have in common is more dedication that myself.
It's often not what you do, but how you do it. I am sure Mr. Bolt rocks that leg press and puts enough yards on the track to turn strength gains on the leg press into speed. Besides we all have different training needs, maybe Usain gets plenty of work on his glutes shooting off the blocks and just wants his training in the gym to focus on the quads more than posterior chain.
P.S. I will try to call somebody bootlike today, thats a good one.
P.P.S what's that mean anyhow?
It's often not what you do, but how you do it. I am sure Mr. Bolt rocks that leg press and puts enough yards on the track to turn strength gains on the leg press into speed. Besides we all have different training needs, maybe Usain gets plenty of work on his glutes shooting off the blocks and just wants his training in the gym to focus on the quads more than posterior chain.
P.S. I will try to call somebody bootlike today, thats a good one.
P.P.S what's that mean anyhow?
brian.goldstein
New member
Yes, many high level athletes succeed in spite of themselves.
but take a look at this and tell me they aren't doing everything they can to do things correctly.
Further - I do not in my heart of hearts believe its necessary to be able to perform sprints VWC style to be a top soccer player. It just does not compute.
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/8/v6n1-8pdf.pdf
If you DO want a great, reliable measure for what you should be achieving, read this article.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/ptc1.pdf
and its cousin:
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/ptc2.pdf
As an ancillary to the whole thing - I am certain that the VWC protocol as laid out in the book will help with almost any endeavor and almost certainly should be pursued. But I think sprinting VWC is doomed to injury, frustration, uneccessary punishment for no gain.
but take a look at this and tell me they aren't doing everything they can to do things correctly.
Further - I do not in my heart of hearts believe its necessary to be able to perform sprints VWC style to be a top soccer player. It just does not compute.
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/8/v6n1-8pdf.pdf
If you DO want a great, reliable measure for what you should be achieving, read this article.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/ptc1.pdf
and its cousin:
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/ptc2.pdf
As an ancillary to the whole thing - I am certain that the VWC protocol as laid out in the book will help with almost any endeavor and almost certainly should be pursued. But I think sprinting VWC is doomed to injury, frustration, uneccessary punishment for no gain.
Check out Tabat Sprints. Science is already done, papers and results written.
After warming up and stretching. Do 20 sec. Sprints with 10 sec. rest repeat 6 to 8 times. The actual sprint + rest time is 4 min.
When Olympic speed skaters did these sprints on stationary bikes they significantly increased MVO2 and anerobic capacity.
The only good thing about it is that it is over quickly. Just don't plan on them being able to do anything after.
Jim
After warming up and stretching. Do 20 sec. Sprints with 10 sec. rest repeat 6 to 8 times. The actual sprint + rest time is 4 min.
When Olympic speed skaters did these sprints on stationary bikes they significantly increased MVO2 and anerobic capacity.
The only good thing about it is that it is over quickly. Just don't plan on them being able to do anything after.
Jim
Sprint Intensity
Does anyone know how to calculate intensity for puroposes applying VWC protocols to sprinting? Some of the VWC protocols call for going at intensities ranging from 120%-140% VO2Max. 100% VO2Max is fairly easy to determine and is described by Kenneth Jay earlier in this thread.
Does anyone know how to calculate intensity for puroposes applying VWC protocols to sprinting? Some of the VWC protocols call for going at intensities ranging from 120%-140% VO2Max. 100% VO2Max is fairly easy to determine and is described by Kenneth Jay earlier in this thread.
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