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  1. #1
    azmark is offline Senior Member
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    Default What preparation for VO2 max or VWC?

    I'm interested in trying out a program such as VO2 max or VWC. These require lots of snatches...how much snatching should I do to be ready for the volume required for these programs? Is there a recommendation for a baseline here?

  2. #2
    Karyobin is offline Senior Member
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    The VO2 Max programme (MVO2) is contained within VWC. I started VWC a couple of months ago with good baseline fitness but not a colossal amount of snatching under my belt. Using a 16kg I followed the example of the hypothetical 'Thorolf' in VWC and began with around 28 sets the first session, increasing quantity roughly 10%-20% per session, backing off now and again then supercompensating afterwards. I completed 80 sets of the first protocol this week. The learning curve comes both in your snatch technique and in hand care. I found myself constantly returning to the book and discovering little nuggets here and there that would assist in my technique and my approach to the protocols. The snatching itself is a sprint, the protocols are a marathon. Find a way to get off on the boredom.

    I have so far found VWC to be one of the most valuable purchases in my fitness arsenal, it has the ability to alter your life in terms of cardio fitness but you have to buy the book, you can't just wing-it on what data you gain from conversations here.

    Hope that helps.

  3. #3
    azmark is offline Senior Member
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    Yes, I intend to buy the book. I just want to make sure that I don't jump right into the deep end, so to speak. Nothing dampens your spirits quite like trying a new routine and being so sore from it that it takes days to get back to normal, or worse, getting an injury.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by azmark View Post
    I'm interested in trying out a program such as VO2 max or VWC. These require lots of snatches...how much snatching should I do to be ready for the volume required for these programs? Is there a recommendation for a baseline here?
    Following ETK RoP for awhile should prepare you for VWC. The presses and snatches will condition your shoulders, as will proper, Hardstyle swings.
    Albert Suckow, Southeast Georgia's Only RKC-Certified Kettlebell Instructor

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  5. #5
    geoplaten is offline Senior Member
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    The only thing you need to concern yourself with is technique. The folks who have kicked a on the VWC program have reported no hand problems - my first attempt (20 sets @ 7 reps) resulted in 2 open blisters, which led me to conclude my technique was not quite up to snuff.

    Just do it.

  6. #6
    BlackBeltMedic is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Eventhough the VWC can be a different animal in and of itself, be sure you at least have a decent cardio base. My first session with the 15:15 protocol was 26 sets (13 minutes) and it kicked my a** and I was surely not outta shape. Regardless, though, the cardio benefits won't take too long to become noticeable. The protocols work. Period. As for prepration.... swings, TGUs, presses as has been already mentioned. Work your way up to snatching through the basics and then make sure your technique is up to par before jumping into VWC. An excellent source of info on this forum regarding the snatch is Jordan (0311bravo). His youtube vids at averagetoelite have helped myself and many others tremendously.
    "What don't kill ya make ya more strong"

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  7. #7
    mc
    mc is offline Senior Member
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    Default prepping for vo2max - movement

    Specifically, how's your snatch form? have you had that checked with an RKC?

    Generally, how's your overall movement? have you had that checked via a movement assessment?

    mc
    mc, phd, cscs,
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  8. #8
    p g
    p g is offline Member
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    Default

    I'm about to start vwc soon, so I thought I'd post my preparations.

    I'm following ROP now, and now I'm doing snatches instead of swings on my medium day also, to get more snatches under the belt. I'm thinking about starting the 15:15 protocol soon, with sets of 5, just to get used to the protocol and sort of test it. And after a few sessions, when I feel ready, I'm gonna do the cadence test and start the real vwc.

    If anyone has any thoughts on this, please reply.

  9. #9
    Karyobin is offline Senior Member
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    If you read VWC, KJ explains that there really is no point in working sub-maximally - that kind of misses the point of VWC. I mean, jogging wouldn't make you a good sprinter, would it? It sounds like what you're planning wouldn't actually do any harm at all though - it'll just waste a bit of time. When I started VWC I just cadence-tested and went for it the following day. Believe me, when you bear in mind the amount of snatches you'll be doing on VWC, a few more beforehand really won't make a lot of difference.

    Test and go for it!

  10. #10
    mc
    mc is offline Senior Member
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    Lightbulb quality of movement is the best prep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karyobin View Post
    If you read VWC, KJ explains that there really is no point in working sub-maximally - that kind of misses the point of VWC. I mean, jogging wouldn't make you a good sprinter, would it? It sounds like what you're planning wouldn't actually do any harm at all though - it'll just waste a bit of time. When I started VWC I just cadence-tested and went for it the following day. Believe me, when you bear in mind the amount of snatches you'll be doing on VWC, a few more beforehand really won't make a lot of difference.

    Test and go for it!
    actually the vo2max is a sub-maximal effort if by maximal you mean something you can only do once. vo2max is also NOT "going as hard as you can go" - indeed, that's why it's important to do the cadence test to get what the *appropriate* intensity is for your current level. Indeed, you'll often see vo2max training described as 85% of maxHR - sub max effort to be sure.

    If you're talking about KJ on intervals vs long cardio sessions at a mid range heart rate, we're still talking submaximal effort on the intervals, instead looking at ways to better optimize effect for a given time. Likewise for vo2max the interval approach is about what happens in the recovery part as much as about what happens in the load part.

    Jogging would certainly contribute many core attributes to making one a good sprinter: regular movement, stamina, hopefully enjoyment of the body in motion. And while muscle/power is important, technique is the biggie to becoming a good sprinter. maximal efficiency - even in the vo2max - is the end game.

    After all, what's the point of vo2max training? It's to train your energy systems (not your muscles per se - that's a side effect) to work more efficiently - vo2max is also called "glycogen sparing" training - in other words, how to use a more plentiful energy source (fat) in favor of a less plentiful one (sugar) for increasingly higher amounts of effort.

    As for starting VWC, the approach is self limiting:
    you need to be able to get through the five minute cadence test. After that the program looks after itself.

    but to go back to an earlier point, what's your snatch form like?

    as has been noted, you'll be doing a ton of reps, right? so you want to be sure you're training your nervous system to carry out *perfect* reps. The pay off of good clean reps is huge; the cost of tons of poor reps is equally dear.

    so the most important prep is to ensure quality of movement.

    best,
    mc
    Last edited by mc; 06-29-2009 at 09:04 AM.
    mc, phd, cscs,
    rkc ii, ck-fms, z-health master trainer, precision nutrition level 1
    instructor reviews :: begin2dig :: twitter :: facebook

    coaching/assessments in person and via web cam - meditatus radix/caveat emptor (i.e. "i'm not young enough to know everything" - o.wilde)

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