American Swing?

**Hurlburt85-89** · 09-03-2009, 06:41 PM

Ok since I was banned on the CrossFit boards for asking this with no sarcasm or profanity, I will ask you guys. What is the point of an "American" swing? I don't get why you would teach people a lazy, poorly performed snatch.

**ZachariahSalazarRKC** · 09-03-2009, 06:48 PM

Marketing-that way there is "Another Way". Whatever

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

**Huskie** · 09-03-2009, 06:48 PM

In my opinion there's no point - you may as well just snatch it. And properly.

Crossfit reckon that the American swing is 'neurologically complete' due to the 'full' range of motion, and that the Russian swing is somehow incomplete.

I believe that this argument is akin to telling Olympic lifters that they shouldn't be doing deadlifts or snatch pulls.

**scors50** · 09-03-2009, 06:48 PM

Wait--I thought American swing was Bennie Goodman and Glenn Miller...

**selfcritical** · 09-03-2009, 06:50 PM

If you phrased it that way, I'm not terribly suprised you got banned.

The arguement is that the wider range of motion= more work. This may very well be true PER REP. However, I feel the last third of the arc is significantly slower than the rest, so your ability to do work PER TIME is dimished.

For example, my Pekiti Tirsia instructor is starting to get heavily into Crossfit. He is in significantly better shape than me as far as metabolic conditioning. If we both swing the standard 35lb'r, he does about 10 swings in 20 seconds. I do 15 in the same period, and I am smaller and have inferior metabolic attributes. Clearly since the difference is not my attributes, it's got to be the way we're swinging. I feel the RKC method maximizes the amount of time we work on the hip motion for any given interval.

I also have some reservations about the range of motion at the top for your shoulder, and how it would interfere with learning a skill progression(using the swing to teach snatches, cleans, and high pulls), but don't feel qualified to speak to that. I would note that in crossfit Oly lifts are taking the place of the more advanced kettlebell lifts, so maybe the need for a planned kettlebell skill progression is percieved as less?

**ZachariahSalazarRKC** · 09-03-2009, 07:31 PM

There is no such thing as full range of motion in exercise, only full exercise ROM. For example the biceps contracts from a stretch position with the upper arm behind the body, continues until the elbow joint can go no further then contracts further as the elbow is raised over the head in deltoid flexion. You would need an elaborate device to train just the biceps through a full range of motion with productive load at all points. Now imagine that for a full body lift. Its a bad argument. How about full snatches and swings on an elevation like in the first RKC text? A great exercise! However should we only do them that way? Should we only bench with cambered bars? Deadlift on blocks? Weak.... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

**Hurlburt85-89** · 09-03-2009, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by selfcritical

If you phrased it that way, I'm not terribly suprised you got banned.

I asked why they are comparing their overhead swing to what we do instead of a snatch. I was not rude. I've never been banned for asking a question on any board. except for CrossFit... today.

But you are welcome to say that I deserved it. Although I'm not sure what the heck you are thinking.

**truckie16** · 09-03-2009, 08:54 PM

In my opinion crossfit does the american swing because they then do not have to teach the snatch. Which is a much more technical lift. It's just a lot easier to teach.

**Hurlburt85-89** · 09-03-2009, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by truckie16

In my opinion crossfit does the american swing because they then do not have to teach the snatch .

Which is fine in itself but don't proclaim you suddenly know more than 300 years of experience with kettlebells and proclaim a big sloppy swing is the ultimate. You are dumbing it down for the masses.

**selfcritical** · 09-03-2009, 09:22 PM

Yeah I think it's a consequence of the way that the swing is an abberation for them, rather than fitting into a needed skill for a wide range of lifts. You can tell that to them the KB swing is a random exercise, rather than being continous with the olympic lifts they're teaching. Some of the exercise progressions seems like they don't view them as a unified whole. As I said, I obviously prefer the RKC version, and expect to be having this discussion often with my martial arts instructor.

Didn't they have an article addressing the subject too? I can't recall.