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  1. #11
    MikeTheBear is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFreides View Post
    Read

    Return of the Kettlebell - Explosive Kettlebell Training for Explosive Muscle Gains - By Pavel - Book

    and your questions will be answered. Chapter 3, around page 90. Pavel specifically talks about the high-rep, light weight barbell deadlift and its similarity to the swing.

    -S-
    KBNJ.COM - Steve Freides, RKC Team Leader
    Never mind.

  2. #12
    faizalenu is offline Senior Member
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    Default Reps for the DL are different than reps for the squat

    Quote Originally Posted by God Squad View Post
    Pavel mentions in BBB that the deadlifts are the best bodybuilding exercise out there. Most bodybuilders in general train in the 6-8 or 9-12 rep range. I consider myself a tweener powerlifter/bodybuilder.

    Take Squats & Bench Press there are plenty of articles and gurus that suggest working those 2 exercises in all types of rep ranges. for example the 20 rep Squat etc....
    ==> There is a big big different between reps ranges for squats and deadlifts. In the deadlift, the weight is completely deloaded at the bottom, while in the squat you are supporting the weight the entire time. This is the reason that you build more size with the back squat, while you build more "wiry strength" with the deadlift. You can also make a similar comparison between the bench press and the KB press


    I would like to hear some thoughts on this and if anyone has experienced any success or failure trying deadlifts in the higher rep range.

    ==> It is not really success or failure, you get what you train for. Because the max effort deadlift is a CNS-intensive lift, and high rep (>10) are a work capacity exercise, there is not as much carryover between the two. In fact, when I did the Jack Reape DL challenge, my max effort deadlift was actually down from max levels. It was like two completely different exercises.


    Thanks

    Pete

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    Faizal S. Enu, CFT/RKC/PBA
    My blog: http://faizalenu.blogspot.com
    Workshop Schedule: http://tinyurl.com/XA-Kettlebell-Workshops

  3. #13
    ddn
    ddn is offline Banned
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    Default

    faizal: Are you saying there is little or no carry-over between >10 rep deadlifts and 1RM?

  4. #14
    spion is offline Senior Member
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    If the 20 rep squat program is so successful you would think that the DL which uses maybe more muscle would also get you the same type of gains although I would be concerned with the teeth clenching, lung searing last few reps, that your form doesn't deteriorate to the point of injury.

  5. #15
    Easey Jack is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by God Squad View Post
    Pavel mentions in BBB that the deadlifts are the best bodybuilding exercise out there. Most bodybuilders in general train in the 6-8 or 9-12 rep range. I consider myself a tweener powerlifter/bodybuilder.

    I consistently train deads in the 3-5 rep range every week (1x a week). Im not a deadlifting animal but Im using 325 for that 3-5 rep range of 3 sets. Im 37 5'10 195.

    Take Squats & Bench Press there are plenty of articles and gurus that suggest working those 2 exercises in all types of rep ranges. for example the 20 rep Squat etc....

    Is there any benefit to do deads in the 6-8 or 9-12 rep range. Maybe more size and less strength? Less stress on the body from heavy weights? Im reading the disadvantage is the form gets worse. But I dont train to failure always stopping 1 or 2 reps before that happens

    I would like to hear some thoughts on this and if anyone has experienced any success or failure trying deadlifts in the higher rep range.

    Im not completely sold out to powerlifting and still have passion for bodybuilding so those are my goals in training......meaning.....I still love the mass of bodybuilding along with the strength of powerlifting.

    Thanks

    Pete
    I think there are benefits. A lot of people talk about the mass-strength-metabolic-hormonal benefits of high rep squats, but deadlifts are similar. and they also work the heck out of your forearms.

    I dedicated a bit of time to high rep deadlifts (10-14 range) in the past. I work hard, and worked to failure. My whole body got bigger. I'm not sure I'd do it again though. The toll it took on my mind--the bar getting heavier week by week--was enormous.

  6. #16
    faizalenu is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddn View Post
    faizal: Are you saying there is little or no carry-over between >10 rep deadlifts and 1RM?
    Not necessarily, the ratio between 10RM and 1RM varies from person to person (ratio of fast to slow twitch muscle fibers) as well as training. Not saying that it WILL or it WON'T carry over.

    I will say this -- if I only did 10RM max training, my 1RM would go down if I had been doing decent 1RM maxes before. If I had not been doing any deadlifts before, and I start doing 10 RM training, both will improve.

    I would say that generally speaking, both will improve (stronger is stronger), especially if you train both. Esp. with the deadlift where it is really a "series" of singles rather than a typical straight set.

    I would say that if your training maximizes one over the other, you may see one get better while the other gets worse. I know that I haven't done any 1RM training but did a lot of high rep stuff and noticed my high rep stuff got better but my 1RM got slightly worse (475lb to about ~445lb). But that was just because I had done some good 1RM training prior to that.

    There are no absolutes.....what happens is a depends on both the training and the training...
    Faizal S. Enu, CFT/RKC/PBA
    My blog: http://faizalenu.blogspot.com
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  7. #17
    MikeTheBear is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFreides View Post
    Read

    Return of the Kettlebell - Explosive Kettlebell Training for Explosive Muscle Gains - By Pavel - Book

    and your questions will be answered. Chapter 3, around page 90. Pavel specifically talks about the high-rep, light weight barbell deadlift and its similarity to the swing.

    -S-
    KBNJ.COM - Steve Freides, RKC Team Leader
    I retract my "never mind." Do you think you could paraphrase what RTK says on this topic? I don't want to spend $40 on the entire book just for this one passage.

  8. #18
    mettleman is offline Banned
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    Steve is correct. Read RTK. You will get much more from the book than the part on DL. I'll paraphrase it tomorrow, but you'll have to trust me when I tell you that it is a few sentences out of a book that is a wealth of knowledge.
    Last edited by mettleman; 04-29-2010 at 09:15 PM.

  9. #19
    pesce is offline Senior Member
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    I'll start the pararphrase and Coms. Steve and Mettleman can jump in. Basically Phil Workman used low-weight (~25-30% of 1RM), high-rep (2-3x20, 2-3x/wk) BB deads to blow his 1RM through the roof. That's on p. 90. On p. 91, high-rep Dimel DLs are discussed. On p.92, Ukranian DLs with a kettlebell for high reps are on. Then we have Com. Kenneth doing double KB sumos on p. 93.

    Buy the book, it's a gold mine.

  10. #20
    faizalenu is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pesce View Post
    I'll start the pararphrase and Coms. Steve and Mettleman can jump in. Basically Phil Workman used low-weight (~25-30% of 1RM), high-rep (2-3x20, 2-3x/wk) BB deads to blow his 1RM through the roof. That's on p. 90. On p. 91, high-rep Dimel DLs are discussed. On p.92, Ukranian DLs with a kettlebell for high reps are on. Then we have Com. Kenneth doing double KB sumos on p. 93.

    Buy the book, it's a gold mine.
    While this is true, people may get the wrong idea. Phil used Dimel Deads to do what he did, not regular deads. The reasons that high rep dimel deads worked so well is that he is supporting the weight the entire time -- thus increasing density. This is the same logic for the 20-reps squat program.
    Faizal S. Enu, CFT/RKC/PBA
    My blog: http://faizalenu.blogspot.com
    Workshop Schedule: http://tinyurl.com/XA-Kettlebell-Workshops

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