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  1. #21
    Ethan Reeve is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Ethan: Hypertrophy and compressed time intervals?

    Aaron5000,
    I'm not aware of Charles Staley's Q4 training. I certainly plan on reading his material on this subject as soon as possible. My method of "density training" came from trainig athletes and myself for sport. Everyone reponds differntly to different types of training. The purpose of what I was looking for myself and the athletes I worked with was to get better performance in their particular sport. In wrestling I wanted our wrestlers to be able to do 30+ chins in one set and be able to do 10x10 in 10 mins.Because they also wrestled there was not weight gain unless they gained muscle and lost body fat. Which is alright with me. Saying that, I must admit I prefered our wrestlers to be at a weight class that was more natural to them and work on being better wrestlers without concern for weight cutting. Of the all-americans we had at UTC 2 came in at 126 lbers and were all-americans at 142 lbs. and 158 lbs.. Another one came in at 149 lbs. and was all-american at 177 lbs. But the density training during season did not alter their weight class. I guess it has something to do with other activity levels in conjunction with this "density training".
    The way I would train for a fixed weight (bodyweight or kettlebell poods) with a set goal for reps (2 poods clean-n-press @ 12 reps) is the way I described in my version of "density training". I am certain that what I do or did has been done before although I am not aware of these other methods. Most of the way I train athletes is for their performance and I let nature do the rest as far as hypertrophy goes.
    I hope this helps.
    In Strength,
    Ethan Reeve

  2. #22
    sebarnes is offline Senior Member
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    Default One-minute rests

    If my goal is 30 snatches with each arm with the 2-pood (in my fantasy), and I slowly begin to decrease the rest periods by increasing reps per minute, when do I know it's time to switch to a standard 1-minute rest per set? It seems that you switch somewhere around 12 reps, but I'm figuring that you are using some percentage of total desired reps. What might it be...?

    Com. Steven Barnes

  3. #23
    Ethan Reeve is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Density training vs. Ladders?

    SaidaiJoey,
    This sounds good to me. I want you to know that I believe in doing what works. I have not had as much experience with training athletes on the "ladder" system. However, I have had some faculty try it when doing chins. They like it. I have great success with the "density Training" on bodyweight lifts and olympic lifts when training athletes. Let me know how it goes for you. Do you have a specific goal for the kettlebell snatch? At least this will give you some variety in your training.
    In Strength,
    Ethan Reeve

  4. #24
    Ethan Reeve is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: One-minute rests

    Steve,
    Of course you will discover this yourself. It very much depends on how long it takes for you to complete a set. There is no set scheme on this.Let's say that when you do 7+7 on your sets and it takes longer than 25-30 secs. then start going to 1 mins. rest periods. You just don't want to take over 60 secs. rest between sets or less than 30 secs.. Or you can increase the tempo of your reps. You can see how there is no set standard, just work it out and have fun. You will see it will work for you when you do this "density training"
    In strength,
    Ethan Reeve

  5. #25
    dfinley is offline Senior Member
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    Default Awesome! Thank you Ethan! n/m

    Awesome! Thank you Ethan! n/m

  6. #26
    Ethan Reeve is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Density Training-Different Approach!

    jd,
    This sounds great. And I like that you are decreasing the time it takes to get the volume in. Going over 45-60 mins. we have found to not be as productive. Keep up the good work.
    In Strength,
    Ethan Reeve

  7. #27
    Ethan Reeve is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: see the Charles Staley article @ T-mag

    chris,
    I plan on reading this article. I really don't know Charles Staley.
    However, I have never had athletes do "density training" for hypertrophy. I do hypertrophy work different than "density training". Alot of what I do "density training for is strength/power endurance for sport. Also, the side effect you get is mental toughness. You have to constantly step up to the chin bar, olympic bar for cleans, or kettlebells for snatches or clean-n-presses. You develop an attack attitude a "never say die" mentality. This is what I want my athletes to have physically and mentally. If you do enough of this training without going to failure you will see great results. I promise.

    As far as hypertrophy goes we train in a different way than the "density training". For hypertrophy first you must do the lifts that will kick in the natural growth hormone and testerone in your body. These are the standing full-body strength lifts: squats, standing presses, deadlifts, rdls, good mornings, etc. Always start with standup lifts first and work them hard and the rest will take care of itself. Also, working in the hypertrohy training zone-60-80% of 1RM. The idea is to get alot of volume in and feel the resistance. Training to failure works quite well for hypertrophy. We have done this training to failure with success. However, I have found a better way: When training to failure you do one set of 10 reps @ 75% which is a 10RM and you try and do 11 reps. This does work for a period of time. We prefer to do 2-2 1/2 times the volume at 75% by doing 4-5 sets of 5 @ 75%. You can do 1 mins. sets if you prefer which makes it more dense but you don't have to to develop hypertrophy.Here are some numbers to think about for hypertrophy:
    80%-8RM-5x4 or 4x5
    75%-10RM-5x5
    70%-12RM-6x5 or 5x6
    65%-14RM-7x4 or 6x5
    60%-16RM-7x5 or 5x6
    We don't like to spend alot of training for hypertrophy. We work mainly for strength, high strength, power, strength endurance or power endurance. When we work in these areas we have specific sets , reps and percentages we work from. I hope this helps you. Thanks for the website and I plan on reading this article in the next day or two.
    In Strength,
    Ethan Reeve

  8. #28
    Ethan Reeve is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Density Training-Different Approach!

    Ozzy Al,
    Please e-mail me at reevec@wfu.edu. I would like to give you more detail on how I worked 60 kids every 45 mins. for four hours stright 5 days per week. I replied to your post but for some reason it did't show up. I had to rush my children for a swim at the Y tonight. This "density training" really works well for teaching and coaching even the most technical of lifts: snatch, clean-n-jerk, squats, standing presses, etc. I will give you info. on how to set up your weight romm if you'd like. Hope I can be of help to you!
    In strength,
    Ethan Reeve

  9. #29
    FreightTrain is offline Senior Member
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    Default Wow! Thanks Coach, a couple questions

    First let me say that my training goal is to reach top physical condition for entering the Marine Corp. I want to do the training for pullups but also for snatches

    For the clean and press, you say start a new set every 60 secs
    for the santches you say take a 1 minute break at the completion of the set.
    Am I understanding this correct? If so why the difference,

    Second question, Can I density train both snatches and PU simultaneously and how would I structure such a program? 2 days a week snatches 2 days a week pullups?

    How many excercises can you perform this way simultaneously?

    Thanks in advance
    Chris

  10. #30
    Ethan Reeve is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Wow! Thanks Coach, a couple questions

    Christian,
    I would do the chins on Mondays and Thursdays with Clean-n-Presses. Monday
    might be your heavy day and thursday light day.
    Monday: (heavy) clean-n-press 36's/3, 53's/3, 72's/6x4 in six mins. chins-20x5 in 20 mins.
    Thursday (Light Day): clean-n-pressses 36's/3, 53's/3, 72's/3, and either
    53's/10x5 or 72's/12x2 Chins-either 20x5 or 10x5. The reason I like doing
    chins and clean-n-presses on same days is you get the upperbody push and pull.

    On tuesdays:Snatch-36/3+3, 53/3+3, 72/15x2+2 in 15 mins.Windmill-5x5+5
    Overhead squat 36's/3, 53's/3, 72's/10x3 Swings-53/2x10+10
    Thursdays(light)-Snatch-36/3+3, 53/10x5+5 in 10 mins. Widmill-5x5 One legged
    squat-10x3+3 Swings 53/2x10+10

    You can mix this up a liitle as far as sets,reps, weights. I don't know your
    strength so it is hard for me to give all the details.I'm assuming you have all the kettle
    bells. Do you have free weights with olympic bar?

    As far as 60 secs. sets go just remember when you cease to have 30-55 secs.
    of rest per set move on to 1 mins. rest periods beginning at the completion
    of each set. You need to have a little break but not too much. It should be
    intense training but you should not fail on any set except maybe the last set.
    The reason sntaches may show up early in the levels concerning 1 mins.
    rest periods is because you are doing 7 right arm and 7 left arm totalling
    14 reps. This many reps will take you more than 30 secs. which does not give
    you enough rest time. If you were to do 7 reps on the clean-n-press you are
    doing only 7 reps which should not take you past 30 secs. of work.Howver,
    everyone is different and you work on your cadence and rhythm.Just have
    fun and enjoy the beauty of movement and explosion and moving resistance.

    I hope this helps!
    In Strength,
    Ethan Reeve

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