The world’s premier network for those seeking to share and discuss high-impact,high results, super practical information for the developmentof superiorphysical performance.
Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 89
  1. #1
    gtrgy888 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Nevada Mountains
    Posts
    719
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Coach Sommers vs. Coach Wade?

    Coach Sommers seems to value static feats of strength, like the iron cross, and assigns a mixture of static and dynamic drills for his progressions that utilize a small number of near maximal strength reps.

    Coach Wade, on the other hand, emphasizes dynamic calisthenic feats of strength, like the one arm pullup, and assigns a mixture of dynamic and static movements that require only submaximal effort over a relatively large number of reps.

    Does anyone prefer Sommers' smaller number of reps over Wade's extended sets of 20 reps or more? Which do you feel is more effective for building maximal strength with the greatest carryover to other activities?

    Would it be advisable to incorporate Coach Sommers' beginning static strength holds into a strict Convict Conditioning routine?

  2. #2
    MikeTheBear is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    4,023
    Blog Entries
    13

    Default

    I don't believe Coach Wade really exists. I think it's pseudonym that John Du Cane used when he actually wrote the CC. And I mean that as sort of an odd compliment.

    Now that we got that out of the way...

    "Which do you feel is more effective for building maximal strength with the greatest carryover to other activities?"

    This is actually two questions. You should have asked:

    "Which do you feel is more effective for building maximal strength?"

    Initially both, at some point, neither. Once you can do your bodyweight, you won't progress much more without adding weight to yourself (just don't get fat!). Granted, you need lots of strength to do a one arm pull-up, so it's just a question of how much maximal strength do you want to build? Having said that, I've heard that gymnasts are brutally strong despite not training with weights. So the nod goes to Coach Sommers and his gymnastics-based approach.

    "Which do you feel has the greatest carryover to other activities?"

    I've always heard that gymnasts do well at many athletic activities. Again, the nod goes to Coach Sommers and his gymnastics-based approach.
    Last edited by MikeTheBear; 08-22-2010 at 10:52 PM.

  3. #3
    AriSuper is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    338

    Default

    I'd say start with CC and when you get to the master steps(and master them) progress via Cris Sommers style.CC is a lot easier for your joints as opposed to C.Sommers idea which isn't really that easy on your elbows and shoulders especially if you're kinda heavy(or you fall into that group)-and lets not forget in Sommers plan not much off leg work.
    so my best guess would be the following 1:as previously stated start wit CC(great stuff) and after reaching the peak progress with sommers(great stuff as well)
    and 2:combine them do the Sommers plan + CC(everything but the pushupps,pullups,so thats CC - 3 from the big six).

    If your lucky you'll look and be as powerful as these guys:

    YouTube - HANNIBAL FOR KING

    YouTube - Super Strength Human

  4. #4
    Chris Hansen is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,807

    Default

    Actually, Sommer's programs do include leg work such as pistols, deck squats, glute/ham raises, and sprinting.

  5. #5
    AriSuper is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    338

    Default

    Actually, Sommer's programs do include leg work such as pistols, deck squats, glute/ham raises, and sprinting.
    did not know that,I just have his "Building An Olympic Body Through Bodyweight Conditioning - Gymnastics Strength Training " and theres nothing about leg work in there.Just the Planche and front Lever variations.I still stand by my first idea of combination of the two and the use of C.Sommers program as a progression after CC master steps.

  6. #6
    .Shadow is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9

    Default

    That's just Coach Sommer's first article. His book, Building the Olympic Body, is much more comprehensive, and it's not just static strength. I don't have the book but I've toured the forums enough to get an idea. There's a lot of explosive work, particularly for the legs, but also for the arms. Headstand/handstand work that goes quite a ways beyond CC, apart from the master step, in two handed work. I haven't seen much there on OAHSPU.

  7. #7
    darryllardizabal is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sacramento, California
    Posts
    769

    Default

    Coach Sommer does NOT just advocate static holds. They are merely a PART of the program, not the entire thing.

    The smaller amount of reps is because the gymnastic holds are typically near maximal strength due to increased leverage.

    Both share their carryover to increased activities. Most people don't necessarily need "straight" arm strength like the one's advocated in the book. (I do some gymnastic training, but not because I need to, because I want to).

    CC's earlier steps are much more suited for the average gym goer, as even the beginner stuff in Gymnastic Body is typically in the intermediate to advanced stages to some.

    A lot of it also depends on goals - whether high or low reps (both should be used).

    My progress with just static movements actually caused me to back log (following Coach Sommer's progression outline). There's ways to create any and all movements into a dynamic setting and my training progressed has increased ten fold.
    Darryl Lardizabal, USAW, Z-Health Movement Performance Specialist (R,I,S,T)
    E-Mail: apolakifitness@gmail.com
    Blog: http://www.movefu.com & http://www.apolakifitness.com

    Disclaimer: Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice. Please see your trusted medical professional first.

  8. #8
    AriSuper is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    338

    Default

    How did it carry over to your other training methods-can you name some benefits or improvements(has your press gone up,that kinda thing)?

  9. #9
    Henry Ross is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    298

    Default For muscle and power fast, CC wins hands down

    Quote Originally Posted by gtrgy888 View Post
    Coach Sommers seems to value static feats of strength, like the iron cross, and assigns a mixture of static and dynamic drills for his progressions that utilize a small number of near maximal strength reps.

    Coach Wade, on the other hand, emphasizes dynamic calisthenic feats of strength, like the one arm pullup, and assigns a mixture of dynamic and static movements that require only submaximal effort over a relatively large number of reps.

    Does anyone prefer Sommers' smaller number of reps over Wade's extended sets of 20 reps or more? Which do you feel is more effective for building maximal strength with the greatest carryover to other activities?

    Would it be advisable to incorporate Coach Sommers' beginning static strength holds into a strict Convict Conditioning routine?
    I've been around a lot of strength athletes--both lifters and gymnasts--for decades. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that for building a combo of muscle and strength, Wade's method wins hands down.

    I admire gymnasts greatly, and so does Wade as is obvious from his book. But for quick, noticable results, CC is much better. Just read the reviews; fellows are bulking up and getting stronger at light speed! For Sommer's system, the reviews are just so-so.

    Gymnasts can build huge strength using static movements, but the muscle built though isometrics isn't as impressive. Plus, a HUGE amount of energy in Sommer's method is used on balance and skill. In CC there's virtually no "wastage" like this.

    You just get as huge and strong as possible--no balance required.

    The verdict: If you want to get good at gymnastics, and get strong and some muscle as a side-effect, go with Sommers.

    If you want big muscle, and lots of strength as fast as possible without messing up your tendons and getting injured (which is what a convict would want, as those guys need to fight), go with CC...every time.

  10. #10
    Chris Hansen is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,807

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Ross View Post
    Gymnasts can build huge strength using static movements, but the muscle built though isometrics isn't as impressive.
    Isometrics might not be as effective for building size but there's no question that they build strength. That's why Coach Wade, and many others, include them in their programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Ross View Post
    Plus, a HUGE amount of energy in Sommer's method is used on balance and skill. In CC there's virtually no "wastage" like this.
    I think that's a common misconception. The skill required for gymnastic strength training, in many cases, is easier to learn than a proper snatch or get-up. It's not a limiting factor. It's not like you're doing cartwheels or flips or anything. Skill training is a separate thing.

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Free Course
Close