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  1. #1
    vinceh4 is offline Senior Member
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    Default 24kg vs 32kg & the point of diminishing returns for swings

    It seems I remember Pavel mentioning that the 24kg bell was probably sufficient for mortals. I am at a point in my training where I need to consider this carefully.
    question: Volume or go heavier.
    Goals: core strength.
    concerns: low back health, degenerative discs, overuse injury in this area

    The jump to the 24kg really met my goals but I could always use more core strength. Should I expect huge gains in core strength going to the 32kg like I got when I went to the 24kg?

    What is the point of diminishing returns for core strength in volume and weight with KB's for a mortal (swings)? I suspect the 32kg would be the max I could safely swing with moderate to heavyish volume, but is it worth it? (I have done some low volume doubles with a 24kg/16kg)

    Should I just maintain with the 24 and begin my shuffle board career, or will swinging the 32 for volume be significant in terms of core strength?

    would appreciate any input, anecdotal or otherwise. Thx

  2. #2
    taikei is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Never tried with 28kg but Viking Warrior Conditioning with 24kg, I believe this would be the upper limit for that particular protocol, Doing it with 32kg makes no sense to me, in my opinion.
    If your bone structure is larger than average, probably different story.

    My range of one arm swing is 20kg to 44kg.
    I benefit from 44kg because I compliment with 20kg, 24kg, 32kg, 36kg, 40kg.
    20kg is the weight that my muscle and skeleton can endure without putting emphasis on breathing. Swings, so far I see no point of diminishing return as long as I use variety of ranges. Just once I did swings with 60kg.

    If I have to say, the point of dimishing return is recognized by pain in any part of your body.

    Anything heavy which goes overhead is another story.

    Just my opinion as RKC, CK-FMS.

  3. #3
    greg57 is offline Senior Member
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    You've probably already made up your mind, go for it. Some fellas like doing a million reps and some like going heavy. I like to go heavy. I started with a 20kb bell and moved up to the 28, 36, 24(pair), and even got a 48 that I can't press but I love to clean it. You can always find something to do with a heavy bell, even if its just DL's or farmers walks.

    Do what you enjoy and you will make gains, don't worry what everybody else is doing. There is the risk of injury if you let heavier loads compromise your form, but the same can happen due to fatigue on long sets.

  4. #4
    jkd1 is offline Senior Member
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    Vinceh4, so are you swinging for a set amount of time? intervals? schedule? If your goal is core strength, why not do ETK? The MP done correctly will add a lot to core strength. What about heavy TGUs? If you are not doing intervals with your swings, I'd say consider adding that as well. 30:30, or 40:20... If you are, you could add more time to increase volume. You could also add a heavier weight into the mix. But I think if you are looking at core strength as your main goal, ETK with its pressing may be the ticket for you. Another good exercise though for your core is the single leg deadlift holding the bell in the opposite hand as your single leg. set your gym boss for 15 minutes, do 3 reps/set each side, see what you can do with the 24kg in that time frame, minimizing rest, with good form. IMHO, if you 15 or more sets in 15 minutes, either check your form, or add more weight. I'm doing this on my strength day, but with 24+16kg bells in one hand, my core is on fire after 15 minutes of this.....

  5. #5
    ad5ly is offline Senior Member
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    With your concerns about back health, and injury - I believe ETK's program of Heavy, Light, Medium -same but different- approach takes those concerns into consideration. Also the wisdom of "listening to your body" and knowing when to park the bell. I suspect that swinging heavy is a key component to pressing heavy (if pressing heavy is a goal)....Dennis

  6. #6
    SThom27 is offline Senior Member
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    My first question is, what's the point of diminishing returns of core strength? At what point is chasing even increasing core strength a pointless exercise?

    There is so much that can be done in terms of swings with a 24kg. They've all been mentioned. I'd say that if you aren't able to handle say 5 min. straight of 1- or 2- handed swings, then you haven't really pushed the envelope in terms of swings.

    Britt Buckingham's blog, Auburn Strength & Conditioning, has a lot of information about timed sets work. He has some very useful templates for building up volume during timed sets. There's also a lot of anecdotal information about the benefits of timed sets.

    My opinion is that you'll gain much more by building up your volume first than you would from upgrading to a larger bell right now.

  7. #7
    Steve Freides is offline Senior Member
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    Comrade vinceh4, no program works forever, anyway. Try a little bit of the 32 kg and see how it makes you feel. There's nothing wrong with, e.g., using it one day a week or one week per month or something along those lines, even alternating 2-week or longer cycles.

    -S-
    Flexibility Guide from kbnj.com

  8. #8
    Perlenbacher is offline Senior Member
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    Just joining the choir, do some 32 kg work as well. Of course, that can be combined with trying other templates with the 24kg as well.

  9. #9
    danfaz is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinceh4 View Post
    It seems I remember Pavel mentioning that the 24kg bell was probably sufficient for mortals.
    I think the quote was actually from ETK where Anatoly Taras said if a man can snatch a 24kg bell 50 times per arm w/ only one hand switch, he might have reached a point of diminishing returns for conditioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by vinceh4 View Post

    Should I just maintain with the 24 and begin my shuffle board career?
    Try working 8, 10, 12 (or more) minute sets without putting the bell down & discover how the 24 can take your conditioning to new levels.

  10. #10
    SThom27 is offline Senior Member
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    After I thought about it, I remembered reading a blog about a guy who used heavy swings to increase his press and pull-up strength. He experienced a lot of carry over from these heavy swings. For him, it was with the Beast, but whether or not a weight is "heavy" is entirely relative to the individual.

    The relevant blog post if found here.

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