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  1. #1
    Chris F. is offline Senior Member
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    Default CC floor leg raises hand placement

    Hey guys, do any of you place the hands under the hips when doing the floor leg raises? In the book, the hands are placed at the sides. Yesterday I did my first try at step 4 where you add two seconds to the negative. I'm not sure if I aggravated my back doing these as my back had felt a little stiff (cold weather moving in, age, who knows...?) before but the next day I was definitely more sore in that area. Maybe I was arching too much?

    I looked at some articles on the Navy Seal's flutter kicks which seem similar to the leg raises in CC and I noticed they keep the hands under the butt.

    What say you fellow CCers?

  2. #2
    phrak is offline Senior Member
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    No, your hands should NOT be under your butt. That is a crutch for bad hip mobility. If you've gotten this far and don't have the proper hip mobility, I'd recommend going back a step and working it with flat hips. Your butt should not lift off the ground. Lower back and hamstring stretching might be helpful here.
    [URL="http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16177"]My CC Progress[/URL]
    [SIZE=1]Pushups/Leg Raises/Pullups/Squats/HSPUs/Bridges = 3/3/3/6/3/2[/SIZE]

  3. #3
    Chris F. is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phrak View Post
    No, your hands should NOT be under your butt. That is a crutch for bad hip mobility. If you've gotten this far and don't have the proper hip mobility, I'd recommend going back a step and working it with flat hips. Your butt should not lift off the ground. Lower back and hamstring stretching might be helpful here.
    Hips and hamstrings are plenty flexible. I'm wondering if I'm arching the lower back too much and creating too much torque. I'm actually a little reluctant to try to flatten the lower back. I think that is potentially an overused command in yoga and pilates circles. For some, flattening the low back or "tucking the tailbone"brings the low back into flexion that mirrors the same problem as sitting too much. Not sure if I'm making sense...

  4. #4
    phrak is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris F. View Post
    Hips and hamstrings are plenty flexible. I'm wondering if I'm arching the lower back too much and creating too much torque. I'm actually a little reluctant to try to flatten the lower back. I think that is potentially an overused command in yoga and pilates circles. For some, flattening the low back or "tucking the tailbone"brings the low back into flexion that mirrors the same problem as sitting too much. Not sure if I'm making sense...
    You're making sense, but it's wrong. Sitting too much causes shortening of the spinal erectors, among other things (weak glutes, shortened hip flexors, etc). "Tucking the tail bone" is more properly pelvic posterior tilt, and would work to actually lengthen the spinal erectors were they shortened (and relax the hamstrings).

    Going back, though, I claimed that this is an issue hip mobility not flexibility. Hip mobility is related to numerous things, such as pelvic tilt, lower back tightness, hip flexor strength, abductor strength, etc.

    My guess is that your spinal erectors are shortened, like most of us who sit for a living. The reason Knee Tucks are so hard for people is that we tend to have shortened hip flexors, which are pretty much all that is working in the knee tuck exercise. Have you noticed lower back pain when doing knee tucks or shoulderstand squats? That's likely related. Your spinal muscles are too short, which doesn't allow you to hinge at the hips enough. Your body then recruits your spine to bend instead.
    [URL="http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16177"]My CC Progress[/URL]
    [SIZE=1]Pushups/Leg Raises/Pullups/Squats/HSPUs/Bridges = 3/3/3/6/3/2[/SIZE]

  5. #5
    Chris F. is offline Senior Member
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    Good points Phrak but no my back didn't hurt doing the knee tucks or shoulder stand squats. They felt great for my back actually. I'm gonna rest a few days. It may be that the leg raises didn't irritate it. My mobility is good too. I'm assuming so anyway since I scored a 19 on the FMS. I have had LBP before though and struggle at times with it. Several car accidents, bad weight lifting years ago and sitting very low on a drum throne for years contiributed.

    Are we after the "hollow" position in the lying leg raises?

    BTW I'm a full time Bikram yoga teacher and practitioner. It's done wonders for my back as long as I tread carefully in certain positions when it flares up. In my yoga we never use the "tuck the tail" command. Rather, it's all about keeping the belly in and firm especially when forward bending which should be done from hips and not low spine.

    One last thought: it was the first time doing step four. I'm wondering if holding the legs straight at the bottom and then quickly bending them a bit before lifting them up may have jerked me out of whack? Hmmm....

  6. #6
    gtrgy888 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris F. View Post
    Good points Phrak but no my back didn't hurt doing the knee tucks or shoulder stand squats. They felt great for my back actually. I'm gonna rest a few days. It may be that the leg raises didn't irritate it. My mobility is good too. I'm assuming so anyway since I scored a 19 on the FMS. I have had LBP before though and struggle at times with it. Several car accidents, bad weight lifting years ago and sitting very low on a drum throne for years contiributed.

    Are we after the "hollow" position in the lying leg raises?

    BTW I'm a full time Bikram yoga teacher and practitioner. It's done wonders for my back as long as I tread carefully in certain positions when it flares up. In my yoga we never use the "tuck the tail" command. Rather, it's all about keeping the belly in and firm especially when forward bending which should be done from hips and not low spine.

    One last thought: it was the first time doing step four. I'm wondering if holding the legs straight at the bottom and then quickly bending them a bit before lifting them up may have jerked me out of whack? Hmmm....
    I've noticed the same soreness the day after step 4. This movement is much more flexibility intensive than step 3, so my guess is that the extra stretching irritates the lower back and spine, especially if the legs are straightened too quickly in the top position. As for hand position, I keep them pressed on the floor, not under the hips.

    YES, you should absolutely use the hollow position for this movement. I keep my shoulders elevated off the ground in a crunch position for the duration of the set. It also seems to reduce my lower back discomfort and focus tension on the abdominals where it's most important. If I stay flat, I tend to feel the movement more in the hip flexors and lower back, which is not good.
    CC Progress
    Pushups 9 Leg Raises 10+ Pullups 8 Squats 9
    Bridges 6 Handstand Pushups 4

  7. #7
    phrak is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris F. View Post
    Are we after the "hollow" position in the lying leg raises
    Yeah, I'm 90% certain you want a "hollow" position. Regarding your "tuck the belly" statement, I always like to say "try to put your sternum on your crotch". This usually does well of achieving the same sort of thing.

    And for the record, I actually feel my lower back muscles working in the lying leg raises. So you might simply be working muscles you're not used to working. Are you sure it's not just regular DOMS?
    [URL="http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16177"]My CC Progress[/URL]
    [SIZE=1]Pushups/Leg Raises/Pullups/Squats/HSPUs/Bridges = 3/3/3/6/3/2[/SIZE]

  8. #8
    Chris F. is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrak View Post
    Are you sure it's not just regular DOMS?
    I'll let you know this weekend when I'm scheduled to do them again

    I think I just need some time to get the groove. The extra counts and locking and unlocking the knees may be funky until I find the groove.

    Felt better today. Even managed the PS for close squats again and am one more session away form going to step seven. The close squats actually hit my spinal erectors more than my legs. They feel good.

  9. #9
    Chris F. is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtrgy888 View Post

    YES, you should absolutely use the hollow position for this movement. I keep my shoulders elevated off the ground in a crunch position for the duration of the set. It also seems to reduce my lower back discomfort and focus tension on the abdominals where it's most important. If I stay flat, I tend to feel the movement more in the hip flexors and lower back, which is not good.
    Thanks man! I think you described what I was doing because I'm hardly feeling it in my abs.

  10. #10
    Chris F. is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris F. View Post
    Thanks man! I think you described what I was doing because I'm hardly feeling it in my abs.
    Wow! Did step 4 today with the "hollow" position and head up. What a difference! Felt it strong as hell in my abs. I had to reduce the reps. As soon as I felt my low back really lift off the floor, I terminated the set. I think my hip flexors are actually good and strong and I've been overriding the abs.

    Anyway, big difference today. I feel like I'll be here a while but it's uncovering a week area.

    Thanks for the help 888 and Phrak!

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