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  1. #1
    slider is offline Senior Member
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    Default VO2Max with swings

    can you get the same benefits doing swings instead of snatches?

  2. #2
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    VO2Max training is all about heart rate, so yes you can get the same benefits. You can also get it from running or jump ropes if you prefer.

    Just make sure you hit the heart rates needed.

  3. #3
    Kenneth Jay is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by forth View Post
    VO2Max training is all about heart rate, so yes you can get the same benefits. You can also get it from running or jump ropes if you prefer.

    Just make sure you hit the heart rates needed.
    Well, it cant be done when measured in the lab.... which makes sense as there is a lot of static contractions going on the upper body which limits VO2 uptake and the upper body is needed for VO2 max with the kb since the contraction relaxation cycle for the lower body is significantly different compared to running or cycling....

    the swing is way overrated for VO2max work- you can do it of course but if you can do something better why don't you?

    download my latest study by clicking the link in my signature... that shows that a 1:2 / 1:1 ratio of intervals swings did not increase VO2max significantly compared to controls... over the course of 8 weeks... so for the moderately fit person it is not the best choice....
    Keep Moving Forward!
    Kenneth Jay
    MSc. Human Physiology, PhD(c) Neurophysiology, Z-Health Master Trainer

    make sure to check out my blog: neurosig

    you can also visit my website kennethjay.dk or connect with me on facebook!

    Download my most recent peer reviewed published study on kettlebells!
    more studies in progress!

  4. #4
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    That's quite interesting. I would have imagined hitting the same high intensity would give you the same benefits regardless.. just it would be a lot harder to hit that level using swings.

  5. #5
    mitak is offline Member
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    Well as Kenneth said there is a lot of static contraction going on the upper body so the muscles are not getting a lot of the oxygen from the blood. And the difference between arterial and venous oxygen levels is a part of the VO2 equation.

  6. #6
    rifstonian Guest

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    Actually, Kenneth has told me that the swing is between 80 and 90% as effective as the snatch at eliciting the changes in one's max Vo2. The "float" phase of the snatch is very important for unloading the tension that is necessary to elicit these changes ( afterload). The swing actually has TOO much muscular tension to create this effect although even 80% benefits is incredible.

  7. #7
    Kenneth Jay is offline Senior Member
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    well, in most recent research this could not be showed however... the way the swing is executed + baseline conditioning level + duration are factors that affect if the swing will work.... if a person is poorly conditioned then an 80% of what the snatch does (which is as close as 96% that of running) we end up with an intensity of around 77% of "true" VO2max provided that the swing is done more rhythmical in the contraction/relaxation cycle... this means that the forceful contraction has to be diminished as it will cut off blood flow for too big a part of the entire work...basically this means that the swing has to be done soft with only as much force as needed to get the kb to the desired height- nothing more... efficiency becomes a major part...
    more likely is that if choosing the swing you will have to do much longer sets resembling long slow distance work....

    /KJ
    Keep Moving Forward!
    Kenneth Jay
    MSc. Human Physiology, PhD(c) Neurophysiology, Z-Health Master Trainer

    make sure to check out my blog: neurosig

    you can also visit my website kennethjay.dk or connect with me on facebook!

    Download my most recent peer reviewed published study on kettlebells!
    more studies in progress!

  8. #8
    PeterHuntRKC is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by forth View Post
    That's quite interesting. I would have imagined hitting the same high intensity would give you the same benefits regardless.. just it would be a lot harder to hit that level using swings.
    Hello, forth:

    And you just heard it from the



    Regards,
    Peter.

  9. #9
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterHuntRKC View Post
    Hello, forth:

    And you just heard it from the



    Regards,
    Peter.
    Hi, Peter.

    I am sorry but I don't understand this post at all.

  10. #10
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Jay View Post
    well, in most recent research this could not be showed however... the way the swing is executed + baseline conditioning level + duration are factors that affect if the swing will work.... if a person is poorly conditioned then an 80% of what the snatch does (which is as close as 96% that of running) we end up with an intensity of around 77% of "true" VO2max provided that the swing is done more rhythmical in the contraction/relaxation cycle... this means that the forceful contraction has to be diminished as it will cut off blood flow for too big a part of the entire work...basically this means that the swing has to be done soft with only as much force as needed to get the kb to the desired height- nothing more... efficiency becomes a major part...
    more likely is that if choosing the swing you will have to do much longer sets resembling long slow distance work....

    /KJ
    A very nice read. Will give me something for my mind to go over while I'm doing VS pressing today.

    I get the impression now that the lockout is actually, for the "conditioning" effects, a quite important part of the snatch - and merely getting the bell somewhere overhead (a bit more than high-pull pretty much) would also get you stuck in the same boat as the swing. Refering to a video that popped up on this forum some days ago specifically.

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