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  1. #1
    Pat Flynn RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Default Snatch Breakdown/Tutorial

    I just put up a new video tutorial breaking down the high pull progression for learning the snatch or improving your snatch technique. Let me know what you all think and I hope that this is able to help a lot of you out that are new to kettlebells or have had trouble with your snatch technique.

    http://www.chroniclesofstrength.com/1/post/2011/04/the-nincompoops-guide-to-hardstyle-kettlebell-snatch-mastery.html

  2. #2
    GuyVDL is offline Member
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    This is great, thank you. I'm just starting one hand swings and high pulls now after just over 3 months of swings and TGU's. The progression here is great and the detail of how to get the bell down and ready for the next snatch is fantastic. Thanks again and I'm just about ready to add the snatch to my routine with much more confidence.

  3. #3
    shellsandbells89 is offline Senior Member
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    Another great video, I favorited this one on my youtube channel. Thanks for sharing

  4. #4
    Karovan is offline Senior Member
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    Nicely done Pat, esp the time you took to explain the down and hook grip which seems to get missed.
    Kevin Knapp RKC
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  5. #5
    Com. Stefan is offline Senior Member
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    Nice tutorial. Def one of the the better on YouTube.

    Perhaps this is slightly OT but you mentioned that thumb position is optional. How does the RKC view the thumb forwards position? I picked this up from Steve Cotter a while back and find it especially useful with snatches.

  6. #6
    Pat Flynn RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Com. Stefan View Post
    Nice tutorial. Def one of the the better on YouTube.

    Perhaps this is slightly OT but you mentioned that thumb position is optional. How does the RKC view the thumb forwards position? I picked this up from Steve Cotter a while back and find it especially useful with snatches.
    In regards to the hardstyle snatch, I leave the option for my clients to either keep the palm pronated throughout or to turn the thumb in and put the shoulder in a more internally rotated position.

    I feel that the thumb up/forward position may be useful for GS athletes in terms of additional efficiency (but then again it also makes it more difficult to maintain a hook grip IMO). If you are looking into training GS then I'd say it may be worth experimenting with, but for Hardstyle snatching I do not teach it.

    Thanks for your kind words Comrade Stefan, as always they are greatly appeciated!

  7. #7
    scorpiogrrl is offline Member
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    Thanks very much Pat, a very helpful video. Especially for the down phase which I'm having the most trouble with.

    Donna

  8. #8
    Fireman Tom is offline Senior Member
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    Pat,
    one thing I wonder about is the inclusion of a "high pull" where the elbow goes well outside and slightly behind your shoulder. [Video - 6:32, and at 6:34, examples of end range of the High Pull]
    But when you Snatch it, you don't follow the same path. Stop the video at 6:37 and you see you dip the elbow earlier than the high pull, and you don't pull your elbow back nearly as far. Don't feel bad because I have yet to see anyone who high pulls in the same path as their Snatch. Don't get me wrong, your Snatch is very Hard-Style, but not Ugly-Style - smooth, quick and compact. My personal opinion is that if you want to use the High Pull to teach, re-enforce and improve your Snatch technique, the two paths should be as close to the same as you can be. The shoulder/elbow pull version of the High Pull was first advocated by a future ex-RKC, to help better teach the punch thru and taming the arc ideas. I hated the exaggerated nature of the pull-back, and I noticed that the guys who advocated and used it the most had the ugliest Snatches with horrible, jerky press outs. YOU have a very smooth lockout, which might mean that you practiced the High Pull just enough to get you to Snatch, while not doing it too much so it screwed up your "groove", or going too heavy and screwing up your shoulder.

    Many Olympic Lifting Coaches include High Pulls in their drills they use to help teach and train the Snatch. One notable example who doesn't normally do so is Senior Internat'l Coach (and RKC '03) Mike Burgener. He says most of his students who try to do High Pulls start to alter the "groove" (path) of their Snatch, building up different muscle memory and motor patterns. So he only lets athletes High Pull if they can keep the same path as when they Snatch. That might be something to think about.

    When I used to teach an RKC-style snatch, I would teach a four step progression of 1 arm swing to forehead (handle horizontal), 1 arm swing w/twist (handle up at angle, then down on backswing), 1 arm swing with twist and bent elbow at top (bend it about 20-25 degrees at apex), then the full snatch. If you took a picture of the end of the bent-arm swing and the snatch before the punch thru, the photos would look the same. Same path, same pull, same angles.

    Tom

    p.s. I know at the 3:09 mark you demo a version of a "GS Snatch" with a hunched over and twisted back and a hanging head. This "style" of Snatch is the style of a certain ex-Champion, but it puts huge loads on your low-back, so the vast majority keep a very flat back and don't hunch over, and use a more pendulum like hip action. Here's a quick clip of the 70kg/154# weight class at the Russian Championships. These guys all did around 75 to 85 Snatches each hand with a 32kg/70# KB.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/MrRSL32#p/u/23/4tAMIH8xeLE

    The "thumbs forward" Snatch is not done by many Champions, but Nikita Balogov (the 70kg WR holder who did 96/95 Snatches) goes thumbs-forward at 45 degree angle on one hand, but 45 degrees back with the other. My Russian Coach believes this is due to an old elbow injury.

    The "thumbs forward" clean is used by a majority of Long Cycle Champions and Master of Sport.

  9. #9
    Com. Stefan is offline Senior Member
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    Thanks Pat and Tom for your comments. I like the thumb forwards clean too and sometimes use it. I've snatched that way exclusively for a few weeks. Don't swing that way at all. It seems like the snatch is perhaps more than other kb exercises a personal preference, at least when it comes to strength and fitness, perhaps not so much in gs.

  10. #10
    Pat Flynn RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Tom,

    Thanks a lot for your input, you make a lot of great points and I agree strongly about many of them. You are correct that my high pull is exaggerated when compared to my snatch. This is intentional, as I have found the opposite to be true with most of my clients, that when you exaggerate the high pull it helps to smooth out the snatch and to reinforce the notion of taming the arc.Again, this is the first part of what I plan to be a series of the most useful snatch progressions. I have taught hundreds of people to snatch ( I instruct 12 kettlebell classes a week and private sessions on top of that) and have found that everybody is not certainly not receptive to the same method. I have found that the "exaggerated high pull" method if you will, is one of the most effective ways to help my participants learn and smooth out their snatch as quickly as possible, and I have had few occurences where one continues to exaggerate their high pull into their snatch. Obviously there are certainly exceptions and outliers and there is no one perfect way to go about teaching the hardstyle snatch. I do indeed like your method and I have worked with the "lazy one arm swing approach", the top down method and a few others that I plan to record and have up soon so that whoever visits my youtube channel will hopefully find a progression that really clicks and does it for them.

    Thanks again for your input and feedback, my experience has taught me what works well and what doesn't work so well, and others will certainly have different experiences than I appreciate everyone sharing their experience.

    As for the thumbs up I agree with you as well; as I have not seen many champions who use this method, and for me the proof is always in the pudding

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