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  1. #1
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    Question Why 5x5? And why sin't it in PTP?

    I was rereading both of Pavel's peices on The 4 Hour Work Week blog about 5x5 programs (the one he has his father on and the one with the full Pler routine explained out).

    What I'm wondering is: why 5x5? And if it's that effective, why wasn't it included in PTP?

    I'm not trying to knowck PTP, I'm just wondering what makes 5x5 so special and what seperates it from PTP style training?
    [URL]http://theunassumingstrongman.blogspot.com/[/URL]

  2. #2
    Kai Johnson is offline Senior Member
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    PTTP was designed to be a bare bones strength building routine that could be done with a minimum of equipment aside from a barbell set.

    Deadlifts can be pulled from the floor. Side presses are hoisted up into position and don't need a rack.

    A true 5x5 routine would require a rack, etc.

    You might be interested in Pavel's Beyond Bodybuilding which is stuffed with various routines and (I haven't read it yet) PTTP Professional.

  3. #3
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    I have both of the aforementioned books, and I believe a 5x5 is specified in BB. But BB is a collection of what I call "shocker" routines, or routines to use when you are either bored or stuck (yes there are a few cycles in there too).

    My question, however, is not to the actual exercises. I understand the intent of PTP book is to provide a person with the simplest answer to "how do I get stronger?." The PTP protocol can be and has been applied to many different exercises with great success, but the 5x5 routine seams to be more highly regarded, and that is what my question is about.

    To rephrase then, regardless of the exercises chosen, what strength/fitness goals would be better served by PTP or 5x5?

    Or in other words, what would cause me to chose 5x5 over PTP or vice versa?
    [URL]http://theunassumingstrongman.blogspot.com/[/URL]

  4. #4
    bwwm is offline Senior Member
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    PTTP is all about getting stronger without necessarily getting bigger.

    5x5 (Beyond Bodybuilding) is about getting bigger and also being "as strong as you look".

    While BB does have 'shocker' programs in it, the 5x5 program in it is meant to be a full fledged, stand alone program for bodybuilders.

    I highly recommend BB if those are your goals by the way - I found it to be very thorough. Wish I had had it 20 years ago. It would have helped me avoid injury and reach the goals of my youth more efficiently.

  5. #5
    speaker is offline Senior Member
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    Not long ago (2-3 weeks) Pavel did talk about what he would change with PTTP knowing what he knows now. I don"t have time to find it now, but, it was recently.

  6. #6
    305pelusa Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by speaker View Post
    Not long ago (2-3 weeks) Pavel did talk about what he would change with PTTP knowing what he knows now. I don"t have time to find it now, but, it was recently.
    Instead of doing 1 x 5 with a certain weight, and then 1 x 5 with 90% of that weight (if I'm not mistaken, that is the PTTP recipe), he said 1 x 5 with the initial weight, followed by 1 x 3, and finally 1 x 2 with the same weight at all times (from the first set) would be Pavel's new choice because it has proven to give as many results (note the same amount of reps, yet more weight is lifted on the second one), and that taking out weights to reach 90% for the second set is just time consuming. It's faster/easier to use the same weight, on all of the reps and sets.

    Thats what he said he would have changed.

  7. #7
    fatman is offline Senior Member
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    5x5 is a great strength program for beginners. It is the perfect program to milk your beginner gains. I can only lament wasting my beginner gains on routines from crap like Flex... it still delivered, but not nearly as well.

    For intermediate trainees, the evolution of 5x5 was 3x5. You warm up throughly, then do one light set of 5, another slightly heavier (but still light) set of 5, then you do three sets with your working weight.

    Another take on 5x5 is' 2x5 everyday', or the PTTP program. So in a way the 5x5 made its way into Pavel's books, but under an assumed name and wearing a fake moustache
    [URL="http://heavyasareallyheavything.blogspot.com"]Fatman's Training Log[/URL]

  8. #8
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    Ok that makes more sense. You see I ask because I was wondering if I was missing something. Doing 5x5 to me is hell. I know it sounds pathetic but doing 5 sets with the same weight for the same motion gets monotonous at about set 3 for me, and by set 5 i have the motivation of a dead rat to finish my sets.

    Right now I'm doing light 2x5 then a heavy single, heavy half, and finally a heavy quarter rep. I've always liked the lower reps heavier weight scheme. I don't get bored. But with all I was hearing about 5x5 I was wondering what the deal was. Thank you.

    Beyond Bodybuilding was a very overwhelming read, and I didn't really find a lot that was useful to me. My end goal being as much strength as I can get, most of what I read convinced me I didn't want to train the way the book was teaching, and I actually stopped reading it after Pavel, in his own book espoused why power lifting was still better and produced better results for much less effort. I don't regret buying it because now I know I'm on the right course, but for a while it left my head spinning.

    I'll stick to what I'm doing and see what becomes of it. Four more weeks after this one then I'll post my results.
    [URL]http://theunassumingstrongman.blogspot.com/[/URL]

  9. #9
    Art
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    Quote Originally Posted by 305pelusa View Post
    Instead of doing 1 x 5 with a certain weight, and then 1 x 5 with 90% of that weight (if I'm not mistaken, that is the PTTP recipe), he said 1 x 5 with the initial weight, followed by 1 x 3, and finally 1 x 2 with the same weight at all times (from the first set) would be Pavel's new choice because it has proven to give as many results (note the same amount of reps, yet more weight is lifted on the second one), and that taking out weights to reach 90% for the second set is just time consuming. It's faster/easier to use the same weight, on all of the reps and sets.

    Thats what he said he would have changed.
    Glad I found this thread and this post. I'm thinkiking about a PTTP inspired routine, and I hate changing weights (takes too long, especialy if you have to use dumbells for upper body) a set of 5, then 3, then a single sounds much better.

  10. #10
    geoplaten is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art View Post
    Glad I found this thread and this post. I'm thinkiking about a PTTP inspired routine, and I hate changing weights (takes too long, especialy if you have to use dumbells for upper body) a set of 5, then 3, then a single sounds much better.
    Fwiw, it's 5-3-2, the last set is a double.

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