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  1. #11
    whiskey is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatman View Post
    Yes, but what you are forgetting here is that Olympic lifters actually train those other movements. There is no way in hell I could snatch even 50% of my back squat 1RM, and I have even spent a short period of time learning the barbell snatch (not very successfully). Likewise for power jerking 80%. This is a chart designed for people with extensive experience in practising all six movements.

    Also there is a marked difference between Olympic-style back squats and powerlifting-style back squats. The Olympic style is generally done with a closer stance, higher bar, going very deep while keeping the body upright. Its purpose is to make the legs stronger. The PL style relies on a wider stance, lower bar, squatting just to break parallel. Its purpose is to lift as much weight as possible, and it often utilizes a lot of forward lean to complete the lift.

    If one relies on the latter style, one will have problems front squatting to depth - if you lean forward in a FS, you lose the weight. Quite a few strong back squatters with no FS experience will be defeated by this exercise. The problem is not in being unable to rise out of the squat, it comes from the bar rolling forward as the lifter leans over.

    Of course, once they get the body position right they will make huge gains in the FS, but the movement needs to be practiced for a while until they get the hang of it.
    I posted that chart just to show that there is actuall chart based completely on back squat numbers..
    Of course snatch is very technical lift so you can't expect someone who squated all his life to snatch 65% of his squat 1RM on his first snatch try out.

    Still the same is not case with press (which was our original argument). Even if you never pressed in your life you need not much time to learn enough to perform it, good enough. It's not as technical as C&J or snatch.
    And if you ask around you will see pretty soon that the chart above is pretty good for most people in respect squat-press ratio (provided they squat att all)and not just for olympic lifters.

    My point was, to squat 280 kilograms for reps you have to be a beast and you can't expect from that kind of strong man to press just 50 kilos or whatever, even if he never pressed in his life. (Now treadstarter never said anything about his press so I want just to say that all this have not anything to do with him personaly, but is just discusion between me and you)

    You are right of course on difference between oly and power. squat but 280 kg is 280 kg. If you go below paralel even on power squat it takes balls to do it.

    Hell most people would get crushed like bugs even if they tried to unrack 280 kilos ;-)

  2. #12
    305pelusa Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey View Post
    Of course snatch is very technical lift so you can't expect someone who squated all his life to snatch 65% of his squat 1RM on his first snatch try out.
    I think this is what Fatman is saying about the Front Squat. You can't expect a person that Squats 280 kgs to Front Squat 100 kgs precisely because it is a very technical lift.

    Understand. It's NOT that the OP can't Squat it. It's not that he lacks the strength on the upright position. It's just that he probably can't keep the weight well racked while he Front Squats.
    Just like how technically demanding the Snatch can be, the Front Squat is just as technically demanding for the OP.

    I think THAT'S what Fatman is saying.

  3. #13
    RJ79 is offline Senior Member
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    whiskey the guys problem is with bar position and adapting to the more upright position - not the weight. If I laid a bar that weighed 220lbs on your throat it would choke you too as well as anyone else on the planet earth no matter what their back squat is.

    Red Boar: the only thing I can offer in my limited front squatting experience is you have to find a comfortable spot. I can rest the bar right behind my front delts without choking myself with the crossarmed grip.

    Maybe someone like Boris could provide some more help. His squatrx youtube videos are fantastic.

  4. #14
    fatman is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey View Post
    My point was, to squat 280 kilograms for reps you have to be a beast and you can't expect from that kind of strong man to press just 50 kilos or whatever, even if he never pressed in his life. (Now treadstarter never said anything about his press so I want just to say that all this have not anything to do with him personaly, but is just discusion between me and you)
    I agree to a point, however there are a number of very good squatters and deadlifters who are not very good at pressing.

    Now this is not the case with Com. Boar, who can bench press close to 200kgs AFAIK. Probably has a decent overhead press too.

    But there are quite a few people who excel in the deadlift and do very well in the squat who are not good pressers, even after training pressing movements for some time.

    Many will remember an older-generation powerlifter named Hideaki Inaba who managed close to 550 lbs. in the squat in competition, which for him was over four times bodyweight (weighed in around 120 lbs.); he rarely managed more than 200 lbs. in the bench press (only once managed 250+), where one can move a lot more weight than in the OHP. Bob Peoples, the famous deadlifter who pulled over 700 lbs. at a BW of 175, was unable to bench press bodyweight.

    While it is rare, this sort of disparity happens even with athletes who train all lifts equally hard. Among gym rats you will often find the guy who bench presses 405 easily but cannot squat 225 - the blown-up torso on stick legs. The same disparity sometimes works the other way - good squat/DL numbers, very poor pressing; powerful legs coupled with the upper body development of an 11-year-old.
    [URL="http://heavyasareallyheavything.blogspot.com"]Fatman's Training Log[/URL]

  5. #15
    whiskey is offline Senior Member
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    Fatman, I think actualy that we understand each other pretty well / to not split hairs any further.

    I just got impression that / some people / are taking the weight rather lightly, like they do not understand how much 280 kilograms realy is.
    Most people can't role that weight across gym floor and the distance between 280 and 100 kilos is like distance from Earth to Jupiter. It is certainly easier to write down 280 than it is to lift it, much less for reps.

    Lastly I still withstand that it is much easier to suck on press if you are deadlifter-only compared to squat-only lifter. There is some caryover from squat to press and there is close to zero caryover from deadlift to press. In other words if you squat only you are much more likely to have good press without even training (press) compared to someone who deadlift only.

  6. #16
    Red Boar is offline Senior Member
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    OK, Comrades, I have red all your replies and I have to thank you for your time and advices.

    Certainly, there is no direct correlation between PL back squat and front squats or other exercises; if it would be, then Olympic weightlifting History would have ended with Paul Anderson, and today's world records would have been hold by Vlad Alhazov, or best squats would have been accomplished by best Olympic lifters (which is not the case either).

    280kg for reps means 2-3reps, not 8-10. That is why I did not say 290km or 300kg 1RM - because I could not do it.

    Yes, the weights I can front squat with are smaller (about 60%) of my 1RM is overhead press! That is revolting and I do not really work anything with that weight despite great pain and bruises and chokes.

    I would try rack front squats (comrade Xen's advice, most welcome), then a homemade front squat harness.

    My experience with straps was worse than those with bare hands . No straps for me, too unstable.

    I have to rely only on WWW and experimentation, because I have no access to real men like Comrade Pavel.

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