The world’s premier network for those seeking to share and discuss high-impact,high results, super practical information for the developmentof superiorphysical performance.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 16 of 16
  1. #11
    forth is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Malmoe, Sweden
    Posts
    1,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by faizalenu View Post
    Take a picture at the bottom of your swing or snatch, If the bell is in teh center of your stance, there has to be some rotation.
    I don't understand why you need torso rotation to get the bell into the center.

  2. #12
    johnbeamon is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    805
    Blog Entries
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by forth View Post
    I don't understand why you need torso rotation to get the bell into the center.
    This makes presumptions about one's posture and the path of the bell. Most people make small adjustments to put the center of gravity for the combined bell and athlete between their feet, but do not snatch the bell along a sagittal plane nose-to-navel and centered between the feet. I shift my torso sideways and snatch a bit diagonally and off-center, and moreso on the left side than on the right.
    [B][URL="http://ironflinger.blogspot.com"]John Beamon[/URL][/B]
    [SIZE=1]
    [SIZE=2] My thread "Guest User? Really" prompted some 6 pages of discussion on why Pavel's user account had been changed to "Guest User" status. John Du Cane answered in a forthright manner, and I thanked him for his professionalism in this very forum.

    That entire thread was removed from the forum on or around August 26. I've been an HKC and an active, outspoken member in good standing for some 3yrs now, but I don't support this sort of censorship. Look for me on the public web.

    -j
    [/SIZE][/SIZE]

  3. #13
    forth is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Malmoe, Sweden
    Posts
    1,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnbeamon View Post
    This makes presumptions about one's posture and the path of the bell. Most people make small adjustments to put the center of gravity for the combined bell and athlete between their feet, but do not snatch the bell along a sagittal plane nose-to-navel and centered between the feet. I shift my torso sideways and snatch a bit diagonally and off-center, and moreso on the left side than on the right.
    So what's your point here? Faizal seems to say one needs to rotate the torso to get the bell in the center.. I guess you're agreeing with me that one does not need to do that.

  4. #14
    faizalenu is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    4,931
    Blog Entries
    309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFreides View Post
    That's right, but making life easier on the hammies and glutes isn't what we're after - if we wanted that, we'd sit in a chair all day. We're trying to achieve maximum results in minimum time spent, results meaning training effect, increased strength, etc. This is in many ways the opposite of trying to exercise efficiently - we are purposefully inefficient. GS is another matter entirely - in the RKC, we believe that one must first understand maximum tension, maximum strength, and maximum explosiveness. Only then can one start to dial in the appropriate level of tension for a particular activity, e.g., GS. One must have strength first in order to endure it in a strength/endurance sport like GS.

    -S-
    Steve Freides, RKC-TL
    Steve, I just checked out your video on YouTube snatching the 32kg. At the bottom of the snatch (which are very impressive by the way), your HIPS are square but the snatching shoulder is definitely lower than the balance shoulder. When I referred to rotating of the torso, that is what I was referring to. It should feel natural and balance, and not something that is consciously done. While this is done, the shoulder should feel packed, but there will definitely be a "tension" in it, but not stretch.
    Faizal S. Enu, CFT/RKC/PBA
    My blog: [URL]http://faizalenu.blogspot.com[/URL]
    Workshop Schedule: [URL="http://tinyurl.com/XA-Kettlebell-Workshops"]http://tinyurl.com/XA-Kettlebell-Workshops[/URL]

  5. #15
    johnbeamon is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    805
    Blog Entries
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by forth View Post
    So what's your point here? Faizal seems to say one needs to rotate the torso to get the bell in the center.. I guess you're agreeing with me that one does not need to do that.
    My point was why one would need rotation to get the bell to the center of the stance. Most people shift their weight a little and dip or turn their shoulder forward a little. It's hard to snatch or even swing 1-handed without the torso adjusting some sort of way.

    It's not so much about "need" as about accommodations made for balance and support as Faizal described later: hips squared, shoulder rotated forward/lower, and probably the torso shifted a couple inches away from the bell. If your backswing is centered between your knees and your lockout is above your hip, you're snatching diagonally across your midline. Nothing wrong with that. A perfectly rigid torso executing snatches above and below the shoulder is asymmetrically loaded like a suitcase deadlift, an exercise in rigidity instead of explosiveness.
    [B][URL="http://ironflinger.blogspot.com"]John Beamon[/URL][/B]
    [SIZE=1]
    [SIZE=2] My thread "Guest User? Really" prompted some 6 pages of discussion on why Pavel's user account had been changed to "Guest User" status. John Du Cane answered in a forthright manner, and I thanked him for his professionalism in this very forum.

    That entire thread was removed from the forum on or around August 26. I've been an HKC and an active, outspoken member in good standing for some 3yrs now, but I don't support this sort of censorship. Look for me on the public web.

    -j
    [/SIZE][/SIZE]

  6. #16
    Steve Freides is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    7,649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by faizalenu View Post
    Steve, I just checked out your video on YouTube snatching the 32kg. At the bottom of the snatch (which are very impressive by the way), your HIPS are square but the snatching shoulder is definitely lower than the balance shoulder. When I referred to rotating of the torso, that is what I was referring to. It should feel natural and balance, and not something that is consciously done. While this is done, the shoulder should feel packed, but there will definitely be a "tension" in it, but not stretch.
    That's an older video, and those are definitely _not_ RKC-approved or RKC style snatches - not the knee dip, not the torso rotation, not the wrap around at the top. None of that is what I recommend.

    But we need to see that video for what it is - me, attempting to get close to "repping out" with a heavy weight using form that is competition-legal, not form that is RKC-approved. At recent RKC certification weekends, that form would be allowed for the snatch test, but would not be allowed for the Sunday technique test. I believe the RKC recently switched the snatch test to Sundays, which means I don't know if it would be allowed there, either.

    I no longer rep out, and I no longer practice that kind of form. My current snatch training is 10-20 minutes of low reps on the minute with a 24 kg, striving for no rotation, no bending of the spine, and keeping the shoulder packed throughout the entire movement. When I hit 200 reps in 10 minutes, I will probably go to a heavier weight, with the goal of being able to keep the above-described form with the 32 kg as well.

    Hope that explains things - if it doesn't, please ask.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com
    Last edited by Steve Freides; 06-06-2011 at 01:20 PM.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Free Course
Close