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  1. #11
    Henry Ross is offline Senior Member
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    Default So true!

    Quote Originally Posted by kodo kb View Post
    TNW is not really a bodyweight book in my opinion, it is a book on strength. The way Pavel introduces you to the HTT (high tension techniques) is through a focused bodyweight program, but it's not a primer on bodyweight drills.
    I'm glad someone else feels this way!

    Josh, I think you are very wise here.

    I was told some time back by a poster here to read NW as a strength manual, NOT a bodyweight book. I definitely agree that the book is really about a philosophy of strength, and it presents very beautifully and elegantly as such. The fact that it features bodyweight exercises is ALMOST incidental.

    It could have been written about sandbag or barell lifting, and very little would have to be changed. It truly is a genius exposition of principles.

    That said, since you are a beginner, many people here have also said how helpful CC is to beginners, due to its "easy" steps and logical, clear progressions.

    It's worth noting that (in the Frequently Asked Questions), Paul Wade himself was asked about Pavel's work, and he advises The Naked Warrior as an ADVANCED course for those wanting to take their CC further.

    I think his analysis is on the money. If you are looking to get set, go for CC. If you are really getting serious, The Naked Warrior is absolutely wonderful. It will teach you a huge amount about strength also.

  2. #12
    Pats is offline Member
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    Default

    Thanks for the quick replies guys, guess I'm gonna go with both!

    Gonna start with CC while reading TNW like most of you are recommending, BW training has always intrigued me but I never got a reason to start learning until now, I just loved too much the Barbell.

    Thanks again for the great replies!

    Edit: I was wondering, if I buy TNW immediatly, is it possible to do GTG with pistols and one-arm push-ups (as according to the site, is what TNW talks about the most) during off days WHILE doing Barbell work? I'm hoping it won't interfere too much with rest.
    I'm only asking about TNW since CC is I guess a stand alone program.
    Last edited by Pats; 06-06-2011 at 12:55 PM.

  3. #13
    kodo kb is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Ross View Post
    ... That said, since you are a beginner, many people here have also said how helpful CC is to beginners, due to its "easy" steps and logical, clear progressions.

    It's worth noting that (in the Frequently Asked Questions), Paul Wade himself was asked about Pavel's work, and he advises The Naked Warrior as an ADVANCED course for those wanting to take their CC further.

    I think his analysis is on the money. If you are looking to get set, go for CC. If you are really getting serious, The Naked Warrior is absolutely wonderful. It will teach you a huge amount about strength also.
    First I would like to thank you for the kind words, it isn't everyday an 19 year old gets to hear that he's wise.

    Secondly I'd like to point out some things that make me disagree with you on the advanced/beginner idea.

    I think the difference is the focus of the program. TNW focus is on trying to gain the greatest amount of strength possible as fast as possible through the developer of the CNS. CC is focused on trying to gradually build high levels of strength through both muscular and neurological developments.

    In TNW, Pavel suggests working on one-armed pushups from a wall if they have too (similarly to CC), but still insists working on the hardest incline available and utilizing the HTTs. For the one-legged squats he has you reduce the ROM, but to your maximum ability while using the HTTs. This progression leaves room for anyone to start tackling these movements, but they are focused on the mastery on tension via these difficult bodyweight exercises.

    In CC, Coach Wade suggests starting at the first steps to show mastery of the movement, as well as to develop the musculature that Wade believes assists progression through the steps. I think the reason Coach Wade considers TNW advanced is becuase but its nature, using the HTT restricts the amount of repetitions one can accomplish in a given set. Due to the nature of the CC setup (decreasing reps per set as the exercises get increasingly difficult), it is not until the higher steps that one can use the HTTs effectively in their CC workout sessions. Also, it is around the higher steps of CC that one really needs to use the HTTs to perform the movement.

    So although TNW isn't really only for advanced bodyweight enthusiasts and because (as we both agree) TNW is a book on maximum strength, it stands to reason that as you progress along CC, the HTTs discussed in TNW must become part of your training arsenal. Therefore, it is easy to see why Coach Wade sees TNW as an advanced bodyweight training manual.

    What I'm trying to say is that most programs aren't advanced or basic, they're either good or bad. The thing that determines an advanced program versus a basic one is the person who uses it and the weights (or resistances) being utilized. The ROP with a 16kg. KB might be considered basic, but with the 48kg. Beast it is most certainly advanced. Both CC and TNW present good systems, they just differentiate on when to start using very high resistances due to their goals and their writers's differences on training philosophy (Pavel is for Hardstyle while Coach Wade is for a Old-School Calisthenics, otherwise defined in the CC FAQ as a double progression).

    Just some of my thoughts on the subject,
    Josh
    "I can't imagine how it WON'T work...save you not doing it." — Dan John

    "I never went to the gym to "work out". Rather I went to LEARN. The workout was incidental." — Dr. Ed Thomas

  4. #14
    kodo kb is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pats View Post
    Edit: I was wondering, if I buy TNW immediatly, is it possible to do GTG with pistols and one-arm push-ups (as according to the site, is what TNW talks about the most) during off days WHILE doing Barbell work? I'm hoping it won't interfere too much with rest.
    I'm only asking about TNW since CC is I guess a stand alone program.
    It depends on the intensity of your barbell program and the exercises you include. If you already have a heavy squat and a heavy press movement it may be too much. If your doing strength training with your barbell work, I'd still suggest that you get TNW immediately to try and implement the HTTs into your barbell stuff. Both TNW and CC can be great standalone programs, but they don't have to be. (I, for instance, am doing CC progressions along with some kettlbell work.) It all depends on your goals. They should be the most important thing to consider when organizing your training program.

    Good luck with your training,
    Josh
    Last edited by kodo kb; 06-06-2011 at 01:14 PM.
    "I can't imagine how it WON'T work...save you not doing it." — Dan John

    "I never went to the gym to "work out". Rather I went to LEARN. The workout was incidental." — Dr. Ed Thomas

  5. #15
    Jeff is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sisk View Post
    Years ago I'd have suggested NW, but since then I've moved away from HTT and have found that I'm stronger and healthier than ever.
    What do you think it was about HTT that was not agreeing with you?

  6. #16
    PusherUpper is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    So although TNW isn't really only for advanced bodyweight enthusiasts and because (as we both agree) TNW is a book on maximum strength, it stands to reason that as you progress along CC, the HTTs discussed in TNW must become part of your training arsenal. Therefore, it is easy to see why Coach Wade sees TNW as an advanced bodyweight training manual.
    That's like with me, the progression steps in CC for the OAPU helped me to achieve the NW OAPU. I bought NW first, then a week later, I bought CC. NW was too deep at the time. CC was right up my alley. But after awhile, reading this board and advancing in CC, then NW started clicking.
    "Remember: moving up a step doesn't [I]build[/I] strength. It [I]demonstrates[/I] strength--the strength you actually built by knuckling down and working hard on earlier steps!" - Paul "Coach" Wade.

  7. #17
    Pats is offline Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kodo kb View Post
    It depends on the intensity of your barbell program and the exercises you include. If you already have a heavy squat and a heavy press movement it may be too much. If your doing strength training with your barbell work, I'd still suggest that you get TNW immediately to try and implement the HTTs into your barbell stuff. Both TNW and CC can be great standalone programs, but they don't have to be. (I, for instance, am doing CC progressions along with some kettlbell work.) It all depends on your goals. They should be the most important thing to consider when organizing your training program.

    Good luck with your training,
    Josh
    Mmm the intensity is very high honestly, I try to up the weight every weight session and I'm pretty trashed by the end but I'm very intrigued about using TNW in my barbell sessions now, I'm gonna buy it right away and CC a bit later.
    Thanks!

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