This is a test.

**Bradley** · 08-01-2011, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by pesce

Just to ask, are you pulling your kneecap up? I can make VM and VL contract on the floor if I do.

If you're not, and I am no one's idea of an anatomist, I thought it was one of the other thigh muscles that did the hip flexion, so it seems like it should be possible.

Either way, why is this an indication that something is wrong?

Just supporting evidence, and perhaps something that might point to what's wrong.

**faizalenu** · 08-01-2011, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bradley

"Another crap post" is what someone wrote on the "rep" thing.

The vastus lateralis and vastus medialis remain mushy. I can lift my left almost entirely without these muscles contracting.

No kidding, those muscles don't cross the hip, so they are not engaged to flex the hips. The rectus femoris is the only quad muscle that crosses the hip. But they are engages is straightening the knee.

**faizalenu** · 08-01-2011, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bradley

Because mine don't, and I think it's an indication of what's wrong. Unless my leg is completely straight, the vastus medialis and lateralis are almost complete mush.

Tension and position are two different things....

**Bradley** · 08-01-2011, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by faizalenu

Tension and position are two different things....

The point is, in order for the leg to be extended, the quads near the kneecap out to be contracting, even if the leg is not completely straight. As long as the lower leg is not hanging directly below the knee, it seems some contraction must be necessary.

And it FEELS like instead of the quads doing anything, it's the IT band pulling on the lower leg instead. And it seems like this may be the cause of, or may be caused by some kind of misalignment, either a rotation or bend between the upper and lower legs.

Even with resistance, such as doing a leg extension, I get the same sensation, in which the quads don't really work right due to some sort of misalignment.

**faizalenu** · 08-02-2011, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bradley

The point is, in order for the leg to be extended, the quads near the kneecap out to be contracting, even if the leg is not completely straight. As long as the lower leg is not hanging directly below the knee, it seems some contraction must be necessary.

And it FEELS like instead of the quads doing anything, it's the IT band pulling on the lower leg instead. And it seems like this may be the cause of, or may be caused by some kind of misalignment, either a rotation or bend between the upper and lower legs.

Even with resistance, such as doing a leg extension, I get the same sensation, in which the quads don't really work right due to some sort of misalignment.

Wrong....what are the "quads near" the knee cap? It is not like the if the knee extends, the lower part of the quad contracts and if the hip flexes the upper part of the quad contracts.

Also, if a muscle shortens, either:
* It can tense up (concentric contraction), or
* It can be moved by and external force. For example, if you are lying down, the ground pushes up on your ankle to straighten the knee ==> No tension.

Also, you can have tension in the muscle even if it is getting longer (eccentric contraction). For example in a leg extension, as you go back down, their are is still tension in the quad, even though the muscle is getting longer.

But what you probably have is tightless in the IT band/TFL. Instead of asking a forum, check with a professional.

**Bradley** · 08-02-2011, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by faizalenu

Wrong....what are the "quads near" the knee cap? It is not like the if the knee extends, the lower part of the quad contracts and if the hip flexes the upper part of the quad contracts.

Also, if a muscle shortens, either:
* It can tense up (concentric contraction), or
* It can be moved by and external force. For example, if you are lying down, the ground pushes up on your ankle to straighten the knee ==> No tension.

Also, you can have tension in the muscle even if it is getting longer (eccentric contraction). For example in a leg extension, as you go back down, their are is still tension in the quad, even though the muscle is getting longer.

But what you probably have is tightless in the IT band/TFL. Instead of asking a forum, check with a professional.

Quads near the kneecap are the vastus lateralis and medialis.The rectus femoris is the other one. It's just easier to say upper or lower.

I know all of that stuff you said. Eccentric, concentric, doesn't matter. The test is the same doing either. The ground is irrelevant as I described the test as lifting the leg off the floor.

What's relevant is that the quad doesn't contract at all until my knee is at full extension, and yes, that's me sitting on the ground, with my leg lifted up with no support from the ground or anything.

Maybe my IT band and TFL has been tight for long enough that it's made things adapt in a bad way.

**faizalenu** · 08-02-2011, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bradley

Quads near the kneecap are the vastus lateralis and medialis.The rectus femoris is the other one. It's just easier to say upper or lower.

I know all of that stuff you said. Eccentric, concentric, doesn't matter. The test is the same doing either. The ground is irrelevant as I described the test as lifting the leg off the floor.

What's relevant is that the quad doesn't contract at all until my knee is at full extension, and yes, that's me sitting on the ground, with my leg lifted up with no support from the ground or anything.

Maybe my IT band and TFL has been tight for long enough that it's made things adapt in a bad way.

Seriously, there are so many inaccuracies and ambiguities that it is useless to respond, you are better off starting over.

**Bradley** · 08-03-2011, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by faizalenu

Seriously, there are so many inaccuracies and ambiguities that it is useless to respond, you are better off starting over.

Such as? Point them out and I'll fix them.

305pelusa · 08-03-2011, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Bradley

Such as? Point them out and I'll fix them.

I think I can spot a few:

Originally Posted by Bradley

Quads near the kneecap are the vastus lateralis and medialis.The rectus femoris is the other one.

Rectus femoris is NOT the other. Rectus Femoris AND vastus intermedius ARE the others. Four quad muscles sir! Not something that affects the point at all, but maybe one of the "innacuracies" Faizalenu is talking about.

Originally Posted by Bradley

It's just easier to say upper or lower.

The rectus femoris extends all the way to the knee. So the lateralis and medialis aren't "lower" than the rectus femoris. The latter one is just long enough to go from close-to-the-hips, to the knee. Right in the middle of the lateralis and medialus close to your knee, THAT'S rectus femoris territoy XD

Originally Posted by Bradley

What's relevant is that the quad doesn't contract at all until my knee is at full extension

I'm no expert on this, but IF you try to do hip extension, the quads HAVE to do the work. NO other muscle does it. None. That's how the body works. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understand this. IF you don't feel like your quads are contracting, that's fine. But they are. I mean, it's not like you can curl a weight without your biceps.

The other one probably being that tight IT and TFL bands do not make your body adapt in a way that your quads aren't doing knee extension.

The last one is probably the fact that, after Faizalenu told you that only a professional can solve this problem instead of the forum, you stay trying to ask the same questions.

Yes, no, maybe so?? Hope you do get better sir! It isn't a "crap post" at all. It's just a topic that only professionals can truly solve

**Bradley** · 08-03-2011, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by 305pelusa

I think I can spot a few:

Rectus femoris is NOT the other. Rectus Femoris AND vastus intermedius ARE the others. Four quad muscles sir! Not something that affects the point at all, but maybe one of the "innacuracies" Faizalenu is talking about.

The rectus femoris extends all the way to the knee. So the lateralis and medialis aren't "lower" than the rectus femoris. The latter one is just long enough to go from close-to-the-hips, to the knee. Right in the middle of the lateralis and medialus close to your knee, THAT'S rectus femoris territoy XD

I'm no expert on this, but IF you try to do hip extension, the quads HAVE to do the work. NO other muscle does it. None. That's how the body works. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understand this. IF you don't feel like your quads are contracting, that's fine. But they are. I mean, it's not like you can curl a weight without your biceps.

The other one probably being that tight IT and TFL bands do not make your body adapt in a way that your quads aren't doing knee extension.

The last one is probably the fact that, after Faizalenu told you that only a professional can solve this problem instead of the forum, you stay trying to ask the same questions.

Yes, no, maybe so?? Hope you do get better sir! It isn't a "crap post" at all. It's just a topic that only professionals can truly solve

Well I didn't think I had to be so exacting for the point to be made. I know all the anatomical stuff you're pointing out.

When I say lower quads I mean the vastus lateralis and medialis. They are lower than the rectus femoris, and a simple look at the legs should make clear what I meant by "lower." I left out the vastus intermedius because I don't know anything about it, except that it's much smaller, or hidden, or something like that.

And when I talk about raising my leg, it's WITH the lower leg extended, so the vastus lateralis and medialis should be contracting, but they aren't.

It really seems like people are going out their way to try to NOT understand what I'm saying.