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  1. #1
    NonStop is offline Senior Member
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    Default ETK ROP - Doing C+P and Pull-ups back-to-back too much fatigue?

    I recently have been unable to break past 5 x 1,2,3,4 on my heavy day. However, I do combined ladders of C+P's with weighted pull-ups, and I do the C+P's and pull-ups back to back, with only 1 min rest between rungs. So I do 1 C+P per side, then immediately 1 weighted pull-up, 1 min rest, 2 C+P's per side, then immediately 2 weighted pull-ups etc...

    Do you think that this isn't enough rest, and that I should have an extra 1 min of rest between the C+P's and pull-ups - allowing me to hopefully break 4 rungs?

    Look forward to your thoughts.

  2. #2
    Emby is offline Senior Member
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    That is exactly the method I used as that is what is recommended in the book BUT there is no harm doing the C+P ladders and doing the pullup ladders afterwards although that sets you up for a longer workout.

    As fatigue built up I just added more rest between each ladder and or more rest between rungs.
    I Just settled on extending the rest between ladders and rungs.

    When I started on the 24Kg I was doing 30 seconds between rungs 1 min between ladders. By the end when nearing 5 X 12345 I was resting 90 seconds to 2 mins between rungs and always 3 mins between ladders. When I moved up to the 32Kg I started with the lower rest periods again and increased them as I approached the higher numbers again.

    The other thing you could do is add rest time as you progress through the rungs e.g.
    1st-2nd rung 30 seconds, 2nd-3rd 60 seconds, 3rd-4th 90 seconds 4th-5th 120 seconds. I sometimes found myself doing this naturally, as the cumulative fatigue increased I naturally increased the rest each rung to ensure clean reps when I went for the next rung.

    Hope this helps

  3. #3
    stork is offline Junior Member
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    Alternating the C&P's with pullups can be a challenging workout. Though I have been able to get to 5 x (1,2,3,4,5) doing this, I found that I was limited by cardiovascular stamina as opposed to strength, which takes away from the strength training portion of the ladders. There have been posts from members of the group that have done the pullups separately in various forms. One option is to do the pullups separately; at one point I did the ladders separately on the hard day only.

    Another is to grease-the-groove pullups.

    For the past few weeks I have trying a third option, namely, doing the fighter pullup program five days a week, coinciding with the five ETK training days. We'll see how that works.
    Last edited by stork; 08-14-2011 at 07:56 AM.

  4. #4
    JasonL.Ac. is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NonStop View Post
    I recently have been unable to break past 5 x 1,2,3,4 on my heavy day. However, I do combined ladders of C+P's with weighted pull-ups, and I do the C+P's and pull-ups back to back, with only 1 min rest between rungs. So I do 1 C+P per side, then immediately 1 weighted pull-up, 1 min rest, 2 C+P's per side, then immediately 2 weighted pull-ups etc...

    Do you think that this isn't enough rest, and that I should have an extra 1 min of rest between the C+P's and pull-ups - allowing me to hopefully break 4 rungs?

    Look forward to your thoughts.
    I haven't met or seen you, don't know what weights you're using, or what your goals are, so take this with a grain of salt. But I think in general, if you are following a routine that is working for you and you enjoy, when you hit a snag (and eventually you will, no matter how good the routine or how strong/conditioned you are), change as few things as possible as little as possible, in small increments. Too often, people jump ship entirely to a different routine when a small change would have sufficed to keep them going for several more weeks, if not months.

    In your case, you're not taking very much rest at all; I would start with that extra minute of rest. If that doesn't work/when that stops working, add more rest. Remember to throw in a back off week or week off every so often. Do it before you feel you need it. When adding more rest no longer is working, or when you're just running out of training time, then see where you are and reassess/reevaluate.
    Jason Ginsberg, RKC2, LAc
    [url]http://www.dragondoor.com/instructor/1706[/url]

  5. #5
    Steve W. is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NonStop View Post
    I recently have been unable to break past 5 x 1,2,3,4 on my heavy day. However, I do combined ladders of C+P's with weighted pull-ups, and I do the C+P's and pull-ups back to back, with only 1 min rest between rungs. So I do 1 C+P per side, then immediately 1 weighted pull-up, 1 min rest, 2 C+P's per side, then immediately 2 weighted pull-ups etc...

    Do you think that this isn't enough rest, and that I should have an extra 1 min of rest between the C+P's and pull-ups - allowing me to hopefully break 4 rungs?

    Look forward to your thoughts.
    1. Forget the clock. Go by feel, don't rush and give yourself plenty of time to recover between sets.

    2. Don't worry about "breaking through" anything. It's okay to stay at one level, or even backcycle for as long as you need to. Just continue to do your work consistently without killing yourself and you will make progress over the long term.

    I find that shorter rest periods are more a RESULT of increased strength, rather than a strategy to produce increased strength in the first place.

  6. #6
    bwwm is offline Senior Member
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    I am currently doing ETK/ROP with pull-ups mixed in as well. Definitely give yourself some more rest between sets.

    How long have you been doing ROP? What weights are you using?

  7. #7
    NonStop is offline Senior Member
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    Thank you for all the replies people. In regards to doing combined or separate ladders - I like doing them combined a) cos I like to follow the book b) have found it takes more time doing them separately c) found that my pull-up volume went down if done separately, combined could create equal amounts of volume. But thats just me

    Weights wise, I'm doing C+P with 24kg, and pull-ups (palms facing away) with 5kg - both the C+P and weighted pull-ups when I last tested I could reach 8RM with. Have completed all 5 ladders with all 5 rungs a while ago with 16kg for C+P, as well as 10 x 2, 3, 5 with the 16kg. I recently did 5 x 1,2,3,4,5 with BW pull-ups, hence the small extra weight to bring in the RM the same as the C+P.

    From what I see, extra rest would help, will try to stay on course as much as possible.
    Last edited by NonStop; 08-14-2011 at 11:22 AM.

  8. #8
    faizalenu is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NonStop View Post
    with only 1 min rest between rungs. So I do 1 C+P per side, then immediately 1 weighted pull-up, 1 min rest, 2 C+P's per side, then immediately 2 weighted pull-ups etc...
    You say that you like doing things by the book. The above is decidedly not by the book and is counterproductive.

    Rest as long as you need to to get the next set of work in.
    Faizal S. Enu, CFT/RKC/PBA
    My blog: [URL]http://faizalenu.blogspot.com[/URL]
    Workshop Schedule: [URL="http://tinyurl.com/XA-Kettlebell-Workshops"]http://tinyurl.com/XA-Kettlebell-Workshops[/URL]

  9. #9
    bwwm is offline Senior Member
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    Definitely try the extra rest between sets. Pavel mentions in ROTK that you can take all day to do your ladders in ETK/ROP. Also consider doing a back off week every 4-6 weeks, if you're not already.

  10. #10
    NonStop is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by faizalenu View Post
    You say that you like doing things by the book. The above is decidedly not by the book and is counterproductive.

    Rest as long as you need to to get the next set of work in.
    Pavel definitily advocates doing combined C+P and pull-up ladders and says the rest periods is up to the individual. Admittedly, I have probabyl given myself too little rest and thus probably counter-productive, but I do not think it is anti the book.

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