The world’s premier network for those seeking to share and discuss high-impact,high results, super practical information for the developmentof superiorphysical performance.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Maximilian is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2

    Default How should I start Convict Conditioning training?

    Hey everyone, I'm a college guy very interested in fitness. I was pretty exclusively a runner in high school, and built up a lot of mental will through it. The sport has become second nature to me now. Ever since I've decided that I should become athletic and strive for it for life, I've wanted to be an all around athlete. So I'm gonna focus on strength training for now. Let me apologize beforehand for being long winded or asking too many questions. I'm eager to learn and I'm trying to be thorough as possible to get good answers.

    I've been reading through things for a few years now trying to find a way to get to peak physical condition. But books I've found recently have shown problems in my previous weight training and I think body weight training is a true and simple solution of having the body built to the strength and proportionality it's suppose to have.

    I got CC and CC2 recently and I love them. So far you can say that I've been "playing around". I did some of Good Behavior with exercises a step under what I was sure I could do before really reading all of the first book. I did this to kind of get a preview of it, not sure if it could really deliver what it said it could. But I now see it can with dedication and consistency to form and 2-1-2 timing.

    Questions:

    1. But then I read that I should be starting from step 1 for the power 6. I'm thinking if I'm doing the push ups from step one, why don't I just do everything on fingertips from the beginning to kill two birds with one stone? I'm not sure it will be that easy to to the same with towel gripping for pull up progressions but I think it can be done. Your thoughts?

    2. Do you feel it's really necessary to star all the way at step 1, even if I have a base in further progression exercises?

    3. When staring at step one do you think I should be taking a month per progression, like mentioned as an example of "The Smart Way" in CC1?

    4. What rep scheme should I try for these earlier progressions? I know many will be easy to hit the progression standard right off the bat. Should I just reach the progression standard every workout then move to the next progression at the end of the month?

    5. Do you think It's possible to get the power 6 moves, grip, neck, calf and lateral chain training in at least once a week for each, without affecting the best progress for them?

    6. I see that many people do kettle bell workouts along with CC. Do you think I could do gymnastic body weight static holds as well with CC instead of kettle bells? (Such as Killroy70 from Gymnasticbodies.com?)

    Other physical activities during my week:

    I also have started swimming for cardio, and because I was always a terrible swimmer and thought it was time to change that. I have to do it on Mondays and Wednesdays for a class, but it's never really long or exhausting. Sometimes I swim on Tuesday and Thursday nights with friends too, but I keep it from getting too hard.

    I do a group workout on Wednesday evenings that is similar to cross fit. It consists of tire flipping, plate dragging, atlas ball carries and throws, push ups, pull ups, squats, burpees, etc. This happens in no particular order it's randomized each week, some exercise could be missing or done a different way, or the workout could have an emphasis on upper or lower body. All though this seems crazy but in the end it's not that tiring for me. But the problem is it's a wild card, and I want to make a a weekly workout schedule that can still have this in it without it truly affecting my CC progress.


    After doing Good Behavior the way i said before for 2 weeks and with the these other physical activities I feel like my ideas are doable, but I'm not sure how to really execute them. I know I might come close to biting off more than I should chew. Maybe I'm too eager, I'll let you decide. Even with all this though I realize that I'm looking at about a year of smart training before I master the 6 power moves.

    I'm thinking of something maybe like this:
    Monday- Rest
    Tuesday- Finger tip pushups, Leg Raises
    Wednesday- Rest(due to the "wild card" workout)
    Thurs- Lateral chain, Neck
    Friday- Pull ups, Squats
    Saturday- Calf, grip
    Sunday- Handstand Push ups, Bridges

    What do you think? I kind of just moved things a day down from good behavior with adding in some of the work from CC2 and making Wednesday one of the rest days due to it's randomness.

    Sorry again for all the questions! I numbered the questions so you can feel free to answer one or two and not feel obligated to talk on every one if you don't feel like it. I will much appreciate any help or wisdom coming my way. If I completely missed something from the books please mention it, but I'm mostly interested in your personal experiences since the book can't completely be a "one-size-fits-all" for everyone's goals, abilities, and experience. Thanks!

  2. #2
    305pelusa Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
    1. But then I read that I should be starting from step 1 for the power 6. I'm thinking if I'm doing the push ups from step one, why don't I just do everything on fingertips from the beginning to kill two birds with one stone? I'm not sure it will be that easy to to the same with towel gripping for pull up progressions but I think it can be done. Your thoughts?
    Nah, keep them separate. For step 1, you'll be fine. But once you get to step 4+ of Push-ups, you'll find that you could advance on the normal PUs faster than with the fingertips PUs. Besides, they have different rep-set schemes. Low reps for FTPUs, and high reps for the normal push-ups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
    2. Do you feel it's really necessary to star all the way at step 1, even if I have a base in further progression exercises?
    If you're going to take time and do CC right, then yes, start at the beginning. If you don't feel like doing that, either A) skip the steps (and understand that if any problem arises, it could be bc you did this), or B) pick another program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
    3. When staring at step one do you think I should be taking a month per progression, like mentioned as an example of "The Smart Way" in CC1?
    That's a good idea. Take one month even on an easy step just to make sure you get all the gains you can from it. More if you wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
    4. What rep scheme should I try for these earlier progressions? I know many will be easy to hit the progression standard right off the bat. Should I just reach the progression standard every workout then move to the next progression at the end of the month?
    The rep-set scheme is in the book. Yes, if you can reach the PS, just do that for the whole month, and then move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
    5. Do you think It's possible to get the power 6 moves, grip, neck, calf and lateral chain training in at least once a week for each, without affecting the best progress for them?
    Yes. Although he explains oblique training should be started once some proficiency in Core work is obtained, so keep that in mind. But yeah. Calf/neck/grip training will not affect the other Big 6 (unless you do grip training right before Pull-ups).

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
    6. I see that many people do kettle bell workouts along with CC. Do you think I could do gymnastic body weight static holds as well with CC instead of kettle bells? (Such as Killroy70 from Gymnasticbodies.com?)
    The Killroy isn't just statics. It's about half statics, and half bent-arm work for reps. If you do the full Killroy, I see no point in doing CC (the former covers everything in the latter, and more... which is why it takes so much longer to do). If you only do the statics, then CC... I don't know. You'll have to try and find out. In general, straight-arm work doesn't tire you much for the bent-arm work, so as long as you don't go crazy on the statics, you should be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
    I do a group workout on Wednesday evenings that is similar to cross fit. It consists of tire flipping, plate dragging, atlas ball carries and throws, push ups, pull ups, squats, burpees, etc. This happens in no particular order it's randomized each week, some exercise could be missing or done a different way, or the workout could have an emphasis on upper or lower body. All though this seems crazy but in the end it's not that tiring for me. But the problem is it's a wild card, and I want to make a a weekly workout schedule that can still have this in it without it truly affecting my CC progress.
    We're both pretty young. You can definitely do CC, the CC2 work, and this and still be fine. Now, if you add statics, plus all the pre-req work from GBs, you'll start to find that the sessions get VERY long. Not that you won't be able to complete them, but you won't have TIME to complete them.
    So I'd say CC, CC2, and the random swimming and work you have there. See how that goes, and based on that you could add statics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
    After doing Good Behavior the way i said before for 2 weeks and with the these other physical activities I feel like my ideas are doable, but I'm not sure how to really execute them. I know I might come close to biting off more than I should chew. Maybe I'm too eager, I'll let you decide. Even with all this though I realize that I'm looking at about a year of smart training before I master the 6 power moves.

    I'm thinking of something maybe like this:
    Monday- Rest
    Tuesday- Finger tip pushups, Leg Raises
    Wednesday- Rest(due to the "wild card" workout)
    Thurs- Lateral chain, Neck
    Friday- Pull ups, Squats
    Saturday- Calf, grip
    Sunday- Handstand Push ups, Bridges

    What do you think? I kind of just moved things a day down from good behavior with adding in some of the work from CC2 and making Wednesday one of the rest days due to it's randomness.

    Sorry again for all the questions! I numbered the questions so you can feel free to answer one or two and not feel obligated to talk on every one if you don't feel like it. I will much appreciate any help or wisdom coming my way. If I completely missed something from the books please mention it, but I'm mostly interested in your personal experiences since the book can't completely be a "one-size-fits-all" for everyone's goals, abilities, and experience. Thanks!
    Perhaps you ARE too eager. Evaluate your goals, look at what you want to accomplish, and do that. Nothing more is required. If neck work is very important to you, then add it. If not, discard it. Rinse and repeat.

    Personally speaking, I think you should be fine with such a workout. But it all depends on your level of current strength. If you start on step 1 of everything though, you should be more than able to manage such a routine.
    Last edited by 305pelusa; 02-07-2012 at 12:47 PM.

  3. #3
    ad5ly is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,607

    Default

    1. No.
    2. Yes.
    3. Depends on if you feel you really OWN that movement. But if your not in a hurry then do it for a month - or longer if you have to.
    4.Go by how you feel. If the drill is easy move fwd. Follow the rep scheme from the book.
    5.Depends on you. How could I know that?
    6. Try it out. If it is too much work then drop it.

    You are very eager and ambitious. You are just starting out on the CC program. It will work best for you if you follow the CC program EXACTLY as it is presented. I don't have CC2 so I can't speak about that. Doing all that other stuff alongside CC is not recomended, and will probably negate any gains you make in CC. You need a narrower focus - not all that clutter and glitz. Recognise what goals you want to accomplish within the CC program (since that is the program you want to work - right?) If you really want to do the one arm pushup, or the one arm pullup - or any other master step drill within the CC program dump stuff like "wild card workout" because you are spreading yourself out really thin.

    I don't know if CC and CC2 can be worked together - like the finger tip stuff. If it can then try that out. But all other stuff like tire flipping, plate dragging will ruin your CC endevours..Dennis

  4. #4
    stonehousekarate is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    103

    Default

    I totally agree with ad5ly.
    I spent a decade(90s) trying to do everything.
    I Was usually over trained or injured a good portion of the time.
    I would master the one arm pushup before going serious on the handstand pushups. Same with leg raises before flags.
    As the old saying goes "jack of all trades, master of none."

    Al

  5. #5
    gtrgy888 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Nevada Mountains
    Posts
    719
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Start from step 1 and try to get something out of the movements. When you count slowly through each rep and set, wall pushups for 3 sets of 50 will be difficult and could well take a month. By investing time learning the movement patterns, later steps will be much easier. It is acceptable to skip steps but only after trying them and failing to make progress. As for supplements like grip work etc. you should add them sparingly after workouts only if they help performance.

    For endurance work, training twice per week on CC off days has worked well for me.

    As for statics, weigh your priorities. Through CC alone I can manage an iron cross, tuck planche, L-sit, front lever, and static dragon flag for a few seconds each. If you lose weight and move through the higher progressions, those holds should be within reach with minimal supplemental training.
    CC Progress
    Pushups 9 Leg Raises 10+ Pullups 8 Squats 9
    Bridges 6 Handstand Pushups 4

  6. #6
    Wooden Leg is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    185
    Blog Entries
    22

    Default

    If you start from step 1 you will initially find it's not much of an impingement and you'll probably be keen to keep doing other stuff. When I began CC I was in marathon training and it was no problem. It doesn't take too long before the exercises become a challenge though and start to 'take over'. I ended up dropping a lot of stuff out soon enough (although I am probably over twice your age, which is a factor).
    I would say, don't be in a hurry. Enjoy the early steps where progression is easy. Later on it gets tough and you really have to start figuring out ways to keep it going.

  7. #7
    Todd M is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ne
    Posts
    6

    Default

    1. But then I read that I should be starting from step 1 for the power 6. I'm thinking if I'm doing the push ups from step one, why don't I just do everything on fingertips from the beginning to kill two birds with one stone? I'm not sure it will be that easy to to the same with towel gripping for pull up progressions but I think it can be done. Your thoughts?
    No, coach only recommends a rep range of 5.

    2. Do you feel it's really necessary to star all the way at step 1, even if I have a base in further progression exercises?
    From SUPER F.A.Q
    Is it necessary to always start at the
    first steps for the progressions?
    First off, it should go without saying that you should always start from step 1 of each progression
    if you are:
    • Out-of-shape
    • A beginner
    • Carrying an injury, or
    • Lacking in confidence
    It’s tough to talk about where an intermediate or advanced athlete should start when beginning
    a Convict Conditioning-based workout. It’s tough because all athletes are different, but also
    because—in my experience—most athletes (especially young males) tend to overestimate their
    own athletic prowess. Many times, I’ve seen athletes skip earlier steps, convinced that they’re a
    waste of time and energy. But those early steps are there for a reason. They gradually condition the
    joints and soft tissues, build coordination and skill, and kick-start the slow process of building
    permanent energy supplies into the muscle cells. Those same impatient athletes often either quit
    from aches and pains, or they find they eventually seem to suddenly “hit a wall” in their workouts.
    This is because they never took the time to gradually build momentum; they never “banked”
    strength from the early steps to help them carry their way through the later, more advanced steps.
    Intermediate or advanced athletes will probably want to think about starting from steps higher
    up the series; but this is a decision they should make very carefully. I know a lot of very advanced,
    powerful inmates who have scoffed at the idea of starting from the initial steps. Taking two or
    even three months on “easy” exercises can seem frustrating and unproductive. But once they’ve
    worked through the easier exercises, they often feel like new men. Old injuries begin to heal; the
    joints and tissues become more flexible; the nervous system “reboots” and a new, rock solid set of
    balance and coordination patterns begin to dominate. Motivation skyrockets.
    Isn’t it worth investing a couple months of your life-long training career for that kind of payoff?
    Jesus, most of the bodybuilders I know lay off or vacation for at least two months a year!
    To answer the initial question: no. Advanced trainees don’t necessarily need to start with the
    first steps. But starting with the first steps is never, ever a waste of time.


    3. When staring at step one do you think I should be taking a month per progression, like mentioned as an example of "The Smart Way" in CC1?
    From SUPER F.A.Q
    How long until I can move to the next
    step?
    Nine out of ten of the dudes I’ve trained all seem to ask the wrong question: how long until I
    can move to the next step? Avoid this attitude. Try to be that one, rare trainee who asks the right
    question: how much longer can I keep working on the step I’m already doing, and keep gaining
    something from it?
    Remember: moving up a step doesn’t build strength. It demonstrates strength—the strength you
    actually built by knuckling down and working hard on earlier steps!
    A point I always try to drill into newbies is that the earlier exercises are the key to success in the
    later steps. They are not the enemy—not something to rush. Take your time on each step. Don’t be
    in a hurry. Slow down, and get everything you can from your exercises. Enjoy them. Master them,
    inside and out. When you can say to yourself that you’ve honestly done this, and providing you
    can meet the progression standard for each exercise, using textbook form, then it’s probably time
    to move on up to the next step.
    Sadly, it’s impossible to translate this kind of approach into a time limit such as “one month per
    step”. For some athletes, spending an entire month on the earliest steps might represent an overinvestment,
    particularly if they’re coming in off a previous course of bodyweight work. At the
    opposite end of the spectrum, every athlete on the planet has to cope with the reality of diminishing
    returns—in short, the closer you get to your ultimate potential, the harder it is to get even
    stronger, all else being equal. This means that the further you progress through the steps, the
    longer it takes to hit the progression standard. This isn’t always the case, but it’s accurate as a general
    rule.
    This focus on slow, methodical progress is particularly important as you approach harder
    Master Steps like prison pushups and one-arm handstand pushups. I’ve known some highly
    advanced, terrifyingly powerful bodyweight men who will spend maybe two months just working
    on improving a small nuance of a bodyweight exercise; hand position, speed, leverage. They might
    do this several times before they are able to move up a “step”!
    When you’re getting more involved in bodyweight training, it’s very easy to start thinking in
    numbers. You become single-minded about hitting the progression standard, to move up to
    another step. But your body doesn’t understand numbers. It doesn’t care if you move up a step. All
    it understands is effort. If—by focusing on tempo, control, and cadence—you can make an earlier
    step seem harder, that’s exactly what you should do. Those later steps aren’t going anywhere, and
    the more growth and strength you can eke out of the earlier steps, the easier the later steps will be.
    This is what I mean when I talk about “putting strength in the bank”.

    4. What rep scheme should I try for these earlier progressions? I know many will be easy to hit the progression standard right off the bat. Should I just reach the progression standard every workout then move to the next progression at the end of the month?
    C-question 3 answer.

    5. Do you think It's possible to get the power 6 moves, grip, neck, calf and lateral chain training in at least once a week for each, without affecting the best progress for them?
    Yes, C-the Solitary Confinement workout in CC1.
    Last edited by Todd M; 02-08-2012 at 06:47 AM.

  8. #8
    Maximilian is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Thanks a lot everyone! Sorry if my questions were annoying but I sort of got my ideas jumbled. Such as:

    -Reading that I don't have to start at step 1 as long as I don't rush if I'm not a beginner
    -Then reading that I should "milk" the strength for each exercise(further strengthening the first idea for me)
    -Then reading that I should just start from step 1 anyways.

    I agree with the "jack of all trades, master of none." thought.
    But also in college I have the chance to take part in many things that I probably wont be like this again in any other part of my life, so I'm up for experiencing, learning and having fun with it as much as I can. And if i do try to master something it will probably be later on down the road.

    Your personal experiences are great to hear. I always wonder if I'm still over doing things when I'm gaining or staying conditioned and not really feeling over worked. It's good to here others have tried it an been successful. Also good to here from a runner who was training long cardio days while starting this as well.

    Most all of the extra things will probably be over at the end of the semester. So if i begin a steady program, within a few months I will be training with it by itself (maybe with some running).

    I'm weighing the input of all who posted. Thanks again for all your advice. It seems like a pretty constructive and helpful community.

  9. #9
    DTris is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    856

    Default

    There is a quote in the margins of PTTP that roughly says, "When you finish your workout you should feel strong enough to conquer a kingdom". We tend to think that if we aren't smoked and exhausted that we didn't work hard enough. You want to feel stronger when you are finished, not weaker.

  10. #10
    Wolfeye is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    944

    Default

    Hey Maximilian. The workout you set down at the end looks good. Personally, I don't see the point in starting at a lower level if you already are at a higher one. That cross-fit type thing sounds really good. As for the fingertip push-ups, it makes sense but may be too much for your fingers. Maybe not, but the reps for the push-ups may be too much time for your hands. I'd say to progress as you go. Some people improve rapidly, some don't & that can be affected by other things going on (a lot of drinking, holiday eating, didn't get sleep, more or less amped up that day, etc...). Just get yourself solid on that level, then move on. As for the gymnastic holds mixed in with the CC, it wouldn't cause a problem. Somewhat unrelated, but I'd suggest saving most of your food until the end of the day (like is suggested in the Warrior Diet). I've noticed more "bang for my buck" & more energy overall. It seems like my workouts are more effective when I do that than when I don't. Hitting all the things in one week doesn't seem like it would change the progress in any of them. That would be just progressing as you go (maybe you need more or less rest or build up so you can do them without debilitating yourself).

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Free Course
Close