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  1. #1
    Gruffalo45 is offline Member
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    Default IKFF and RKC instructors

    Can someone tell me the differences (if there is much) between the instructors in these two organisations? Where I am living (within UK) I have plenty IKFF instructors.

  2. #2
    JasonL.Ac. is offline Senior Member
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    There are various differences, but the most important is that IKFF focuses for the most part on using GS (girevoy sport, aka kettlebell sport) as their base.

    RKC does same of the same lifts, but using a different technique and overall different training philosophy, and does some lifts that are not taught in the IKFF.

    I have not been to an IKFF event, but have heard good things about them. As my interest is not really in GS however (although I've dabbled a tiny bit with it, and will probably try it more seriously in the future), I choose to train using RKC methods, as these are more enjoyable for me and better fit my goals. I believe MC has been to both and posted a comparison on her blog, iirc.

    The main thing it comes down to is what your goals and resources are. Why not go to a lesson with one or two of each and see what suits you better?

  3. #3
    ad5ly is offline Senior Member
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    Correct me if I am wrong, but I am little confused, - it is my thinking that the RKC is like the seed from which other branches of the tree have sprung. Steve Cotter started out ( I might be wrong here..sorry..) as a "student" of Pavel's in the RKC system - right? I know very little about GS, but it seems to me that if I were to take up GS the first touchstone would be HardStyle RKC - primarily for learning essential basics and safety. RKC is training, and GS is competition. Like karate has white belt and black belt - right? But like what I said I may be just blowing smoke out my butt and be completely wrong on this as how I understand it...Dennis

  4. #4
    JasonL.Ac. is offline Senior Member
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    Dennis, short version is not really. Yes Cotter et al started out as RKCs...which is a whole other can of worms. But when people call me up with a specific goal of competing in GS, I refer them to a good GS coach.

    As I mentioned, even when they do the same move, e.g. snatch, the technique is extremely different. Each has its place, and someone experienced in one method will have a head start going to the other (kind of like learning French if you already know Spanish), but there will be differences and things you need to relearn/unlearn as well. Also, the jerk, which is neccesary for both of the two basic competitive events in GS, is not even taught at the RKC, only the RKC2, and done in a different manner with different goals in mind.

    GS is a very specific goal, if that's what someone wants, that's what they should do from day one. That, and start running as well.

  5. #5
    ZenBowman is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by ad5ly View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I am little confused, - it is my thinking that the RKC is like the seed from which other branches of the tree have sprung. Steve Cotter started out ( I might be wrong here..sorry..) as a "student" of Pavel's in the RKC system - right? I know very little about GS, but it seems to me that if I were to take up GS the first touchstone would be HardStyle RKC - primarily for learning essential basics and safety. RKC is training, and GS is competition. Like karate has white belt and black belt - right? But like what I said I may be just blowing smoke out my butt and be completely wrong on this as how I understand it...Dennis
    It's more like the difference between Karate and Muay Thai than white belt and black belt.

    Different styles, one focusing on strength development and the other on maximum efficiency.

  6. #6
    Com. Stefan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ad5ly View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I am little confused, - it is my thinking that the RKC is like the seed from which other branches of the tree have sprung.
    I see your point but don't really agree. While Steve Cotter might have found kettlebells through the RKC, his research and knowledge, as far as I understand, comes from many different sources, some of which had nothing to do with the RKC to begin with.

    If I was into GS I would definitely check out IKFF.

  7. #7
    shmathews is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonL.Ac. View Post
    Dennis, short version is not really. Yes Cotter et al started out as RKCs...which is a whole other can of worms. But when people call me up with a specific goal of competing in GS, I refer them to a good GS coach.

    As I mentioned, even when they do the same move, e.g. snatch, the technique is extremely different. Each has its place, and someone experienced in one method will have a head start going to the other (kind of like learning French if you already know Spanish), but there will be differences and things you need to relearn/unlearn as well. Also, the jerk, which is neccesary for both of the two basic competitive events in GS, is not even taught at the RKC, only the RKC2, and done in a different manner with different goals in mind.

    GS is a very specific goal, if that's what someone wants, that's what they should do from day one. That, and start running as well.
    I agree. I started off doing hardstyle, and still incorporate hardstyle principles and techniques into my strength and conditioning training, though my goals are oriented toward GS now. HS and GS are not polar opposites, as some would have you think, but they are certainly two different approaches to kettlebell training. I find that hardstyle swings, get ups, and presses contribute to the kind of overall strength and resilience that would be useful for any sport, and complement my GS training very well.

    I was certified by Nico Rithner, who was certified by Steve Cotter (it's on the third generation now!), and his program contained a mix of GS and of principles and techniques very much like HS- high tension grinds and ballistic power lifts to complement very fluid, efficient kettlebell sport lifts. I can't speak for the IKFF certification experience, nor the RKC, but Steve Cotter is certainly a skilled athlete and teacher, and not a slouch. He seems to be the kind of man you can learn a lot from.
    Shmathews

    "Remember too, that I seek neither your approval nor to influence you towards my way of thinking."-- Bruce Lee, Liberate Yourself from Classical Karate

  8. #8
    Karyobin is offline Senior Member
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    I certified with Steve both as CKT 1 and 2. I'm hoping to the re-cert again this year as it's three years since I last certified.

    RKC is certainly not the 'seed'. GS is the colossal and aged tree from which the RKC is a cutting. Though many would like to pretend they are, they are not different styles. I couldn't explain this better than Steve did in the comments section here.

    He is an awesome teacher and, if you're in the UK (I am too) then get yourself up to Glasgow in June and certify with the man himself. If you still can't decide which 'style' is for you, read Rannoch's article here.

    The bottom line (taken straight from Steve's comments above)

    "It is nonsensical to make things harder than they need to be, in KB lifting and in life."

  9. #9
    Gruffalo45 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karyobin View Post
    I certified with Steve both as CKT 1 and 2. I'm hoping to the re-cert again this year as it's three years since I last certified.

    RKC is certainly not the 'seed'. GS is the colossal and aged tree from which the RKC is a cutting. Though many would like to pretend they are, they are not different styles. I couldn't explain this better than Steve did in the comments section here.

    He is an awesome teacher and, if you're in the UK (I am too) then get yourself up to Glasgow in June and certify with the man himself. If you still can't decide which 'style' is for you, read Rannoch's article here.

    The bottom line (taken straight from Steve's comments above)

    "It is nonsensical to make things harder than they need to be, in KB lifting and in life."
    Thanks - will give that a read.
    Being "certified" - what exactly does that entail...sounds a bit more advanced to me. I'm just looking for an intro to it all - some expert advice on the most basic moves at the start. I am hoping to do an intro course with David Jenkins in the next couple of months.

  10. #10
    JasonL.Ac. is offline Senior Member
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    Karyobin, IKFF has their own forum, if all you'd like to do is criticize RKC methods, then please go there instead of trolling here. RKC developed from GS, that is absolutely true. GS has also advanced and changed in many ways since the 80's and even 90's.

    Like it or not, RKC went in a different direction, developed by Pavel and many others along different lines, and with different goals in mind. To complain about RKC being a 'cutting' is like complaining that French has departed from Latin. I spent years studying Latin and enjoyed it, still read a bit, but I can recognize that French is its own language, with its own intricacies.

    There are many on this forum that are experienced in GS, and I value their contributions greatly. An RKC recently made MS rank in GS, which is quite an achievement. I would hope that you could contribute something useful to the GS discussions that occasionally come up here (truthfully, there's more and better here, despite it not being a GS forum, than many another S&C forum). However if you're only reason for being here is to be argumentative and perjorative, why stick around?

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