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  1. #1
    lanier1974 is offline Senior Member
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    Default C&P can do 7x(1,2,3,4,5) 16kg ladders, but cant do 3x(1,2,3) 20kg ladders.

    Been doing BB C&P routine. 16kg bell is really easy now. I can take no rest between rungs, a couple/few min between ladders, and just keep doing sets. I stop at seven as it feels like a good idea.

    Can do 3x(1,2,3) with the 20kg sometimes, if im feeling partcularly fresh. Tried push presses, they just dont feel right.

    What to do?

    keep working with the 16kb? try (2,5,7) ladders? do 20kg 1x(1,2,3) then use the 16kg?

  2. #2
    kbSagoo is offline Senior Member
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    You could try and duct tape a 2.5 or 5 lb plate on the bottom of the 16kg to try and close the gap with the 20kg.

  3. #3
    JasonL.Ac. is offline Senior Member
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    There's a variety of possible answers, but first I'd want to figure out why you can't do the ladders with the 20kg.

    1. Are you male or female? This will make a difference.
    2. Weight?
    3. Post video. Ideally front and side. If you're male and not unusually light, this is almost certainly a technique issue. Might still be if you're male and light or female as well.
    4. How much rest are you taking with the 20kg ladders? You might just need more. You can always condense rest later, but in the beginning, as Faizal says, rest long enough to get the ladders done.
    5. How many reps can you press the 20kg for, recleaning each rep, with each arm in one set?
    Jason Ginsberg, RKC2, LAc
    [url]http://www.dragondoor.com/instructor/1706[/url]

  4. #4
    bwwm is offline Senior Member
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    +1 everything Jason asked.

  5. #5
    ad5ly is offline Senior Member
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    A video would tell more. I would do Loaded Clean + TGU with the 20kg for a few weeks. Over head walks and rack walks with 20 or 24kg as well. If you need to take a back-off week do so. Pressing a 16 is not very hard for most men, but any flaws in technique, loss of tension, erratic breathing, loss of compression or mental focus has much greater impact when the weight gets heavy.

    GTGing the 20kg for 2-3 weeks may work for you. Start with singles. Make that one single rep PERFECT before moving up to two. No junk reps. Apply all the tools of HTT. Strive for perfection - not numbers. Take your time...Dennis

  6. #6
    lanier1974 is offline Senior Member
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    I am indeed an unusually light man, 6'2'' 150lbs. Was 145lbs when I started the BB routine in Jan (with delorme deadlifts). Been skinny and lanky all my life.

    Ive read and practiced technique recommendations in Pavel's books. I'm open to finding improvements, but I feel my technique is on track. Ill have to video and post as you say.

    Come to think of it I was not resting much between rungs; got so good with the 16kg I may have been rushing it a bit with the 20kg. Ill try to take more rest.

    I recleaning, I can do 4 per arm in succession with the 20kg. Cant budge the 24kg.

  7. #7
    lanier1974 is offline Senior Member
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    yeah BB routine worked like magic with the 16kg in one cycle. i was trying to repeat that BB cycle with the 20. started off well, but burned out soon. Im aiming to gain mass presenty.

    Perhaps as you say I need to GTG with the 20, singles, move up. Right now I am doing my first rung with the 20, sometimes the second rung, then all the rest with the 16.

  8. #8
    stonehousekarate is offline Senior Member
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    I know when I was doing ETK, I got over trained from the volume.
    Slightly back off the volume and add Heavy singles once a week.
    Also make sure you incorporate some horizontal push exercise too.
    Have you read PTP or NW? They really will help lock in your strength groove.

    Al

  9. #9
    bwwm is offline Senior Member
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    Take your time between rungs and sets with the 20kg. Their is no rush. 5 even 10 minutes is not outside the realm of possibility. As Pavel mentioned in RTK, in ETK you could take all day to do your ladders.

    +1 on ad5ly's recommendation for TGUs, waiter's walks, loaded cleans. But be judicious with volume. Back off weeks are also important.

  10. #10
    JasonL.Ac. is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanier1974 View Post
    I am indeed an unusually light man, 6'2'' 150lbs. Was 145lbs when I started the BB routine in Jan (with delorme deadlifts). Been skinny and lanky all my life.

    Ive read and practiced technique recommendations in Pavel's books. I'm open to finding improvements, but I feel my technique is on track. Ill have to video and post as you say.

    Come to think of it I was not resting much between rungs; got so good with the 16kg I may have been rushing it a bit with the 20kg. Ill try to take more rest.

    I recleaning, I can do 4 per arm in succession with the 20kg. Cant budge the 24kg.
    Okay, that helps. You're not that light in the absolute, its more that you're very very light for your height. Combined with the fact that tall people often are at a bit of a disadvantage pressing, due to leverages, distance, etc, it might be a bit harder for you or take a little longer than for others. Deadlifts, on the other hand, will probably be a great lift for you!

    First, take more rest. When attempting to solve a problem, we should always try to find/use the simplest solution first, not the most complex, and only then get more complex as needed. That might just be enough.

    Two, I highly recommend the video. I'm sure you're basically on track, the one arm military press is not brain surgery, but neither is it tying your shoelaces either. I've been pressing, deadilfting, practicing martial arts, playing musical instruments, etc for years, and yet almost every time I have a lesson with a teacher, they find something in the basics that I can improve. Sometimes it makes a subtle difference, but sometimes it makes a big difference. Either way, it costs you nothing in this case.

    Third, when you say "I recleaning, I can do 4 per arm in succession with the 20kg. Cant budge the 24kg.[/QUOTE], this tells me that there is almost certainly a technique issue. Almost everyone I've seen your weight that can do 5 ladders of 5 with a 16 can press the 24 for reps (usually 5 or more). That you're getting 4 with the 20 means the absolute first things to do before jettisoning the whole program is to increase rest, and make sure its NOT a technical issue. And yes, if you're 1 set max is 4, then doing ladders up to 3 is not going to happen.

    Understand that no program is perfect, nothing works forever, and they all sometimes need modification. ETK ROP took me all the way to reps with the 32 (weighing 150-155 at the time; now I'm 160), but then I got stuck there. I found ways to change it up, and now I can press the 40, and do double 32s for reps. So I'm not saying that a variation might not be useful to you, and a lot of the ones posted above are great. I'm saying that before we pick a variation, and in order to pick the RIGHT one, let's follow the check list for trouble shooting the press, which means look for the simplest answers/smallest amount of tweaking first.

    Then, I have several 'transitional' programs that I've used on myself and for people in your situation that I'm happy to share, if needed. I'm not trying to hold you back or be dogmatic ("you must follow the program!" "even if it doesn't work!"), I want to see you press the weight and reach your goals, as quickly and safely as possible.
    Jason Ginsberg, RKC2, LAc
    [url]http://www.dragondoor.com/instructor/1706[/url]

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