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  1. #11
    fatman is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason10mm View Post
    I wonder if humans made an evolutionary trade-off of raw strength for endurance. I read somewhere that men could walk a horse into the ground during forced marches (though this may have more to do with caloric requirements than true endurance). How many mammals could do a marathon (then again, how many mammals TRAIN for a marathon)? Certainly cheetas and such seem to have very little endurance after their sprint. Kinda makes sense I guess, our brains allow us to compensate for strength, hard for primitive tech to do the same for endurance.
    I'm pretty sure a horse trained for a marathon would easily outlast a human. Animals, however, only do what they need to in order to survive. They have no use for ridiculous challenges like marathons, triathlons or weightlifting. They resort to physical exertion only when trying to eat, fight for territory and procreate (or when forced to, as is the case with horses). A cheetah has to run very fast to capture its prey. If it fails, it will starve and die. Predators are built for explosive bursts of exertion; they have zero use for endurance. Many herd animals could easily cover the distance equivalent to a marathon, even without training.

    Bear wrestling was done under certain conditions that allowed the human a chance of survival (or even "victory" over a bear trained to wrestle for show). Eugen Sadow allegedly wrestled a lion. Circus stunts are not to be used as a basis for comparison. Gorillas and chimps are very close to humans genetically due to shared ancestry, but the 1% genetic difference makes for a whole lotta difference in terms of bones, muscles, etc.
    [URL="http://heavyasareallyheavything.blogspot.com"]Fatman's Training Log[/URL]

  2. #12
    ad5ly is offline Senior Member
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    "You don't need to be the fastest caribou in the herd. Just don't be the slowest". hehehe!!.. Animals will only exert enough physical energy to survive a momentary threat - and no more..Dennis

  3. #13
    eraquol is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatman View Post
    I'm pretty sure a horse trained for a marathon would easily outlast a human.
    To add to this: If you've ever read 'Born to Run' and believe in some of the claims that humans are the best endurance runners because of our ability to sweat etc. The human vs. horse event needs to be longer than a marathon. According to wikipedia, horses usually win though.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_versus_Horse_Marathon

  4. #14
    Wolfeye is offline Banned
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    The Mongols used to exercise their horses so they'd be strong, have more running endurance, etc... . Still seems like people can go farther, in terms or distance in one shot.

    ad5ly- There were a few things you said I'd like to correct. Animals do modify their environment (what do you think nests & dens are?). They are also aware of their environment (fish absolutely know that they are not in water when they are pulled out of it, so they need to know what the situation they're in is in order to know that there's a difference). Also, they do have to be aware of their species & gender (to go for a different gender when mating, as well as the species not being a different animal). Also, they'd need to be able to know what they can do (I guess that would be awareness of their anatomy- if their frame is going to hit a branch & make noise that gives them away, if they do or don't have claws like a tiger to use for hunting & fighting, if they don't have gills to breath under water, etc... .). There are a lot of instances of animals learning things (tigers won't usually chase animals across water, but one learned to swim across a river in pursuit of what it was hunting. Sometimes hyenas use hunting tactics that are different from the ones other hyenas use & it was particular to that group. It was passed down through the generations. Dogs learn all kinds of things. So do cats & birds.). There have been cases of monkeys being depressed when their young died. If a particular monkeys is acting nuts, they tend to not bother with it (they are remembering how that monkey acted). If they only lived moment-to-moment, how would they reuse the same den they haven't used in months or dig up food they've stored (squirrels, as well as other animals, do that).

  5. #15
    GoTuNk is offline Member
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    Gorillas are imba.

    I think a more interesting scenario is a death fight between Fedor (in his prime) or Overeem against different kinds of medium apes (Chimpanzee, Orangutan, etc). Aside from strength, claws and teeth would be really helpful for the monkeys, so I don't think neither can defeat anything above 50kg )

  6. #16
    Leif is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatman View Post
    Predators are built for explosive bursts of exertion; they have zero use for endurance. Many herd animals could easily cover the distance equivalent to a marathon, even without training.
    Counterpoint to the predator thing: Wolves (and therefore dogs of the appropriate breeds). One of very few species of land animal that can actually rival appropriately trained humans for extreme long-distance endurance. Which I believe was part of the reason they became our prehistoric hunting buddies.

    (Yes, there are plenty of animals who can do marathons. But that's not extreme long-distance. Appropriately trained humans can cover much longer distances without collapsing and dying.)

  7. #17
    Red Boar is offline Senior Member
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    But it would be senseless animal cruelty unless it's the result of an accident/inter-species misunderstanding and hopefully there would not be such an event . There is little to nothing humans have to dispute with these apes, especially since the large majority of them are vegetarian.

  8. #18
    fatman is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leif View Post
    Counterpoint to the predator thing: Wolves (and therefore dogs of the appropriate breeds). One of very few species of land animal that can actually rival appropriately trained humans for extreme long-distance endurance. Which I believe was part of the reason they became our prehistoric hunting buddies.
    I see your point, but wolves and wolf-related animals are not predators. They are primarily scavengers and only kill weak and dying animals when absolutely starving. If you have a dog and he/she smells something dead and rotting under or in a dumpster, you better have a firm grip on the leash.

    One of the tactics of a scavenger, when unable to find something already dead to eat, is to stalk a weakened or wounded prey animal until it dies or becomes so weak that it can't fight back effectively. This can take a long time and the stalking can extend over great distances, so wolves, hyenas, etc. have developed the patience and endurance necessary to accomplish this (as you have observed).
    [URL="http://heavyasareallyheavything.blogspot.com"]Fatman's Training Log[/URL]

  9. #19
    ad5ly is offline Senior Member
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    Dogs and long distance running. I think that sled dogs used in artic/antartic areas will out distance most other animals and humans. Dogs are my heros!!!...Dennis

  10. #20
    johnbeamon is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatman View Post
    I see your point, but wolves and wolf-related animals are not predators. They are primarily scavengers and only kill weak and dying animals when absolutely starving...
    This is fascinating. Wolves are the very definition of predators. They don't resort to killing animals when starving; they kill live prey as a matter of regular practice. All predators feed on the easiest available prey, be it weak or dying or perhaps already dead. Eating carrion on occasion does not define an animal as a scavenger. Simply quoting from Wikipedia:

    "Wolves primarily feed on medium to large sized ungulates up to the size of bison 10–15 times larger than themselves.[26] Generally, deer and various types of bovids are their preferred prey but wolves are not fussy eaters... When such foods are insufficient, they will prey on lizards, snakes, frogs, rarely toads and large insects as available. In times of scarcity, wolves will readily eat carrion, visiting cattle burial grounds and slaughter houses.[125]"

    Carrion is a food of last resort and easy-access, not the regular and preferred menu. You said the opposite. Dogs are attracted to most any powerful smells. Leather, cookies, carrion, cheese... my dog eats wild green onions that crop up in our neighborhood, despite that onions are poisonous to dogs. It's not just carrion; it's a smell drive.
    [B][URL="http://ironflinger.blogspot.com"]John Beamon[/URL][/B]
    [SIZE=1]
    [SIZE=2] My thread "Guest User? Really" prompted some 6 pages of discussion on why Pavel's user account had been changed to "Guest User" status. John Du Cane answered in a forthright manner, and I thanked him for his professionalism in this very forum.

    That entire thread was removed from the forum on or around August 26. I've been an HKC and an active, outspoken member in good standing for some 3yrs now, but I don't support this sort of censorship. Look for me on the public web.

    -j
    [/SIZE][/SIZE]

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