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  1. #1
    Reinhardt is offline Senior Member
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    Default butt wink in atg oly back squat

    Comrades,
    today i was convicted of having a "butt wink" on some reps during high bar back squatting. More weight, more butt wink. But still not on every rep, so i assume it's a matter of concentration/form. But i don't exactly know what i do different between reps with and reps without wink.
    Any hints?

  2. #2
    powerlifter54 is offline Senior Member
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    Nothing wrong with hip dip. Squatting deep almost requires it and it helps you lift more weight by using elastic reflex out of the bottom. Pause squats are a different animal as are box squats. Oly guys do not smooothly rise out of the bototm, they try to catch the rebound.

    Do it and don't look back.
    jmo
    PL54 RKC

  3. #3
    Boris Bachmann is offline Senior Member
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    A little is not something to be too concerned about. If you are feeling lower back strain and that's originating in the hole (the bottom of the squat), then you should probably work on it.

    5 or 6 years ago no one was talking about "butt wink" and everyone was complaining about their lower backs hurting when squatting - now everyone talks about butt wink and they still squat like crap. There is more to competent squatting than the single issue but it's become THE ONE for people to target because it's easy to spot when you know what it is.
    Boris Bachmann
    [url]http://squatrx.blogspot.com/[/url]

  4. #4
    Reinhardt is offline Senior Member
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    Thank you!

    I don't have any lower back issues since months, so i'll keep squatting;-)

    Maybe i'm a little paranoid, because i had a herniated disk and diagnoses of spondylisthesis last year.

  5. #5
    fatman is offline Senior Member
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    I'd say that lower back rounding at the bottom of a squat (which is what a "butt wink" usually means, not sure if this is what you refer to) is a pretty big deal.

    Almost everyone has a "butt wink" going ATG, which is why there is absolutely no need to go ATG. Squat to a depth at which you can maintain a flat lower back. Most people can do this in a below-parallel PL-style squat. If you can do this, IMO there is no need to go ATG and resort to buttwink (and possibly suffer a nasty injury to the spine).
    [URL="http://heavyasareallyheavything.blogspot.com"]Fatman's Training Log[/URL]

  6. #6
    Boris Bachmann is offline Senior Member
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    Of course the lower back rounding is a big deal - I don't think any of us said it was not. There's a difference between flattening and actual rounding. I made Squat Rx #1 about the theme because, at the time, no one was talking about it and I saw it as an area that needed more attention. But, a little flattening as you go past parallel is probably inevitable even with great technique and mobility.

    Whether there's an actual need to go ATG or not, I leave that to the squatter to decide.

    One point, if you do decide to squat ATG, you should be squatting upright with a high-bar position. A low-bar position is almost always going to lead to the lower back rounding as the hips pass parallel and sink lower and forward toward the feet.

    Technique, mobility, intention, and awareness are important if there is an actual issue. Without a video, there's no way to know for sure.
    Last edited by Boris Bachmann; 07-03-2012 at 11:52 AM.
    Boris Bachmann
    [url]http://squatrx.blogspot.com/[/url]

  7. #7
    JamesRiffe is offline Junior Member
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    DON'T round the lower back, please.

  8. #8
    Steve Freides is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
    Comrades,
    today i was convicted of having a "butt wink" on some reps during high bar back squatting. More weight, more butt wink. But still not on every rep, so i assume it's a matter of concentration/form. But i don't exactly know what i do different between reps with and reps without wink.
    Best if you can post a video of you squatting. It's tough to comment on what amounts to other people's comments about how you squat - that's already several levels removed from us seeing you squat.

    Keep in mind that, as is often said around here and wisely so, it's how _you_ squat that matters and that goes for generalizations like "butt wink" (a new phrase for me).

    The physics is pretty simple - the more your squat looks like a good morning, by which I mean the closer to horizontal your back is, the more you place yourself at risk by rounding your back. If, e.g., you're doing a barbell front squat, you really can't have a back that's far from vertical, and that in turn means you really don't have to worry much about rounding your lower back - the exercise is largely self-correcting and most people will dump the weight on the ground in front of them before they get to the point where they could injure their lower backs due to rounding.

    And if, OTOH, you're doing a heavy back squat with limited hip and/or hamstring mobility and you find yourself essentially facing the floor instead of straight ahead, you can hurt yourself even with a lighter weight.

    Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
    -S-

  9. #9
    Reinhardt is offline Senior Member
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    I try to sit between my legs while arching as hard as i can. When i do goblet squats, i get my hamstrings resting on my calfs while having a perfect arched back, no flattening or rounding. The high bar back squat is a different animal...

    I don't sit back anymore. The more i squat like Rippetoe preaches, the more butt wink i have.

    Will try to post a video on friday.

  10. #10
    Boris Bachmann is offline Senior Member
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    Coach Rippetoe recommends and coaches a low-bar squat to slightly below parallel, not high-bar full squats. Not that all of his advice is inapplicable, but some of it is not.

    This may or may not be helpful (Squat Rx #21: "Sit Back"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlpLj5MlN5M
    Boris Bachmann
    [url]http://squatrx.blogspot.com/[/url]

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