The world’s premier network for those seeking to share and discuss high-impact,high results, super practical information for the developmentof superiorphysical performance.
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Dimmak is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    12

    Default Just finished my Rite of passage and some questions about future programming

    edit: boah sorry - a wall of text. Don't tell me. Just don't read ^^

    Hi there. Today I finished the whole ETK Program like suggested in the free ETK workbook by AOS. I was really out of shape for 4 years before I started workout and the ETK program in march this year. I barely could do 3 chin ups and not much more than 12 push ups. I always was well trained some years before and worked out with Martial Arts, Qi Gong etc. my whole life, so I was really in bad mood as I recognized I has become so out of shape, because sitting in front of a computer the whole day. :/

    So I started barefoot running and saw some vids by Tommy Blom and felt in love with kettlebells. I was so out of shape and the whole ETK program took me some weeks more to finish with my 16 kg kettlebell and extra wide pull ups in the ROP supersets. I also added a 50 pullups challenge and 200 squat rep challenge and 100 rep pushup challenge to the variety days. (yeah I know my programming was not he best, with so little rest to the pullups and so much stress for the shoulders because of pushups and the KB clean and press. I first worked much on the PM and there I just made a pull day(swings and pull ups) and a push day(TGU, pushups, squats) and it fitted better together than later in the ROP)

    Iam now in a test week and I can do 200 BW squats in a row with full ROM. Iam also able to do a little over 50 pushups in a row with full ROM and I guess around 10-12 wide pullups. I will test pullups soon. I can do 100 snatches in 5 minutes with the 16 kg KB. What is killing me always are the swing finisher in AOS workbook...^^

    What makes me happy is that some people just recognized my training and told me that I look athletic with big forearms and big shoulders.

    So thanks so much to the forums, to John DuCane, to Pavel and to the Kettlebell.

    After all my bla, bla. I finally have some questions, because I feel a little lost without a Kettlebell Program to follow.

    I ordered a original 24 KG DD Kettlebell in Germany and Iam waiting for it for some weeks now. What do you guys thinks is the best way to continue my training? My targets are to complete the 100 pushups and 50 pullup challenge soon. And I want obv to become stronger but also want to gain some size.

    So i will buy the book Kettlebell Muscle soon. Is it possible to follow the double kettlebell program by Neupert with different sized kettlebells? (16 kg and 24 kg) Or is that not a good idea and I should first focus on a new cycle ROP with the 24 kg Kettlebell and continue with a 32 kg KB afterwards before I go for double KB work and buy a second KB of each weight?

    In the longterm I want to cycle strength and HT workouts. Like some weeks ROP and afterwards KB muscle/RTK. I also want to buy a power rack and want to start some powerlifting with barbells.

    I will switch to pistol squats and pullups with weighted vests too for bodyweight workout after I complete the high rep challenges. But i want also to be able to do high rep pullups, push ups and high rep squatting for endurance in the future.

    So do you guys think something like this raw cycle scheme will work?

    12 weeks strength training (ETK PM and ROP/ Naked warrior and CC stuff on variety days)
    1 week off
    6-8 weeks hypertrophy (KB muscle/ RTK/ some mike Mahler programs in the cycle)
    2 weeks strength endurance (high rep bodyweight workout/ some ballistic KB cardio stuff)
    1 week off

    I will not mix the programs in one cycle. But change the programs from cycle to cycle. For example 6 weeks KB muscle and next HT cycle a barbell HT programm etc.

    I will also cycle in future the tools for example 12 weeks strength training with kettlebells and 6 weeks hypertrophy with barbell stuff and 2 weeks strength endurance with bodyweights. And then start a new cycle with other tools strength training with barbells, HT with Kettlebells and so on...

    Any opinions, suggestions about that? And sorry for my english. Iam 35 now and my english classes in school are a long time ago.

  2. #2
    ad5ly is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,536

    Default

    This is your first post so I say "welcome to the Party!" com. Dimmak. You sound enthuiastic which is good, but I would first suggest you prioritize your goals and do those programs which work toward those goals. Do not work all the goals just the most important one or two top goals. From reading your post it seems like you want to do it all at the same time which would spreading yourself out too thin.

    For instance you indicate you finished the RoP. Was that with 1/2 BW press and 200 snatches in 10 min? If not then you still need to work the ETK/RoP to make the stated goal in ETK.

    If Push ups, BW squats and pull ups are your top priority then CC, NW or Al Kavadlo's programs is what you should be doing as a priority. Meet those goals.

    KB Muscle and RTK is advanced kettlebell training. So unless you have met ETK goals and you have a good strength base with solid kb technique I would not include them.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    8-12 weeks ETK alt btwn PM and RoP as needed with sprinting on variety days. for strength and cardio. Or 8-12 weeks Pttp with sprinting for strength and cardio.

    OR 8-12 weeks of EDT (BW drills like Pushups/pullups/HLRs/squats) with kb swings and sprints. Strength/cardio.

    4-6 weeks of 3x5 program from BEYOND BUILDING for hypertrophy.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The point is that you should identify the goal that is your TOP goal. I personely think strength and solid technique should come before hypertrophy and big muscles.

    A simple scaled back programming scheme between two (maybe three) programs which fit your immediate goal(s) is what you want...Dennis

  3. #3
    Condorfious is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Welcome to the party! I can feel your enthusiasm in your post

    One thing I think is definately going to help you is your initial plans of getting on a program and STICKING TO IT until you've completed it before moving on. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to "do it all" and have fallen off.

    I've tried to mix Press Ladders, Hypertrophy, mV02 and Bodyweight together all in the same program. Fun for a week and then it falls apart. I would say develop a VERY solid strength foundation first (you'll most likely get some muscle too if you're eating enough) and then "fix" your percieved weak points. I remember being in high school and wanting to add 20 lbs of muscle to my frame that could barely put the 45lb bar above my head in a one arm military press. Get STRONG first and the muscle will come easier.

    I see that you're wanting to do high rep bodyweight feats. I've come across the same programs you speak of (7 weeks to "x feat?") I've never tried them but once you do embark on that quest I'd recommend programs that have been tried and tested to prove incredible. Pavel's "Fighter Pullup Program" is outstanding and will get you doing 20 pullups in one set. The "Hit the deck" program from Beyond Bodybuilding is great too for pushups. Once you get to these baselines let us know how the other programs work out. I'd love to hear about how they do!

    In summery: Do what Dennis said and define your top goal. Get as close to achieving that goal (using the fundamentals!) as possible and only then go back and work on what you missed out on.

    I thought the PM was weak sauce for a long time because I had a 30lb bell and was hearing about complexes, ladders and mV02 protocols. Who needs to swing a 30 lb bell twice a week when you can use more advanced methods with the same bell right? I was wrong. One can get amazing results if they did the PM with the 32kg for even a month. (I couldn't ..yet) You can define "amazing" as bulletproof shoulders that can press a Prius, a heart like a V8 and a back that will let you wrestle your 20 yearold grand kids when the day comes.

    The most incredible building in the world is built on a solid foundation. Your foundation is strength and conditioning. Build it first and you'll flourish!
    Get strong comrade and welcome to the party!
    SFG

  4. #4
    Dimmak is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    12

    Default

    @ad5ly
    thanks for your nice reply. hmmh my primary goal is strength and afterwards size. Kettlebells and weight training have become more in my favour than BWEs. The BWEs are just what I did all my life and I want to have a overall good base at them, that's why I started the challenges.

    My main focus was the ROP the last months. But size has become a new goal to me. I was never bulky in my past. But Iam doing no Martial Arts anymore and have more a QIGong style approach to weight training. So technic and concentration is the most important goal for me. (I don't work out to music to keep my concentration high etc. Always focus on breathing and technic) That's why I like the reduced programs from Pavel like ETK very much.

    Just thought I could cycle maybe the Neupert Program in between, before I start a new cycle ROP with the 24 kg and afterwards a ROP with the 32 kg kettlebell. I thought maybe it is not a good idea to be on the ROP for so many months...I often heard one shouldn't do a program too long and mix it up in between. That's why I asked if I should cycle in the Kettlebell muscle program.

    But I think you have convinced me and I will first stay on the ROP until I am able to press my half BW overhead. For the snatch test I thought, there was a new test to just make 100 snatches in 5 minutes with the 24 kg bell and no longer 200 in 10 minutes... The 200 snatches in 10 minutes really seem like some hard work to do. the ballistics are gasing me out so hard.

    Thought the RTK program was just the advanced stuff and not the Neupert program. But I will finish the required ROP stuff first, like you suggest. That was always my main goal. Running and BWEs are just more a gimmick to me.

    The Trainingscyclescheme was thought for the time after finishing the complete ROP with pressing half BW and finish the USSST. (But thought the test minimum are now 100 snatches in 5 minutes with 24 kg bell - so I thought I would be able to do that in a few months.)

    Okay my main goals are in this order:

    1. Focus, technic , concentration , and something I would call "strength meditation"
    2. raw strength
    3. size

    Thanks for your suggestions. I will take a closer look at the schemes you offered me.

  5. #5
    Dimmak is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    12

    Default

    sorry doublepost ^^
    Last edited by Dimmak; 09-17-2012 at 11:37 AM.

  6. #6
    Dimmak is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    12

    Default

    @ Condorfious

    Thank you so much sir. Yes I think the same way the basics are the most important in everything. So I will take your suggestion to my heart and get a good foundation in strength and conditioning first.

    Yeah I did the BWE challenges on my variety days and on the saturday workouts (the hard one I did them in a extra session after the ROP, often in the evening)

    It takes maybe double the time for me to achieve the challenges then they will tell you in the program. (50 pullup challenge/ 100 pushup challenge/ 200 squat challenge) But that's maybe my main focus was on the ROP and both programs together will end maybe in a little overtraining. But the squats I nearly finished in time. But at squats I was always good because of hard Qigong and Kungfu stances, kicking and stuff in the past.

    I heard about CC and NW after I started the challenges. So maybe I wouldn't do them if I read about CC and NW before. But besides that I think it is okay to be good at high reps also for strength endurance. So I will try to finish the challenges first (because I don't like to end a program without reaching the goal) and then will switch to some BWE stuff in CC or NW manner.

    But the ROP took me much longer than the 12 weeks the AOS suggests, too. I worked out on the PM for nearly ten weeks and for the ROP I revisited some workout days, when I was not feeling good enough to move on. Or if I have a bad workout I will redo it...and often revisited a whole week.

    So thank you guys.
    Last edited by Dimmak; 09-17-2012 at 11:48 AM.

  7. #7
    Com. Stefan is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lund, Sweden
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Hello Dimmak and welcome to The Party, which incidentally is currently missing its chief on the board.

    Your goals are all over the place but I think you will be reach them if you focus at the right thing at the right time. Here are some suggestions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimmak View Post
    I ordered a original 24 KG DD Kettlebell in Germany and Iam waiting for it for some weeks now. What do you guys thinks is the best way to continue my training? My targets are to complete the 100 pushups and 50 pullup challenge soon. And I want obv to become stronger but also want to gain some size.
    If these high-rep challenges are your PRIMARY goals, the fastest way I know will be through Fighter pullup program and Hit the deck.

    If you want strength and size primarily I would do things differently - keep doing RoP (it's not "finished" until you press half your bodyweight and snatch the 24 kg 200 times in 10 minutes). If you haven't gone through it with a 24 kg, don't even think about double bells, the 24 will build both strength and muscle for you at this point. Make sure to eat enough protein, I suggest a minimum of 1,5 g per pound of bodyweight if you're trying to gain mass. Have your supplements in order as well.

    If you're still progressing with your pullups on RoP, it seems logical to keep doing it and not hit Fighter pullup program until you stall. Your pushups will likely not suffer, and I think you'll bring them up fast anyway once you put your focus there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimmak View Post
    In the longterm I want to cycle strength and HT workouts. Like some weeks ROP and afterwards KB muscle/RTK. I also want to buy a power rack and want to start some powerlifting with barbells.

    I will switch to pistol squats and pullups with weighted vests too for bodyweight workout after I complete the high rep challenges. But i want also to be able to do high rep pullups, push ups and high rep squatting for endurance in the future.
    Practice your pistols on variety days - squats are the missing ingredient in RoP and pistols fit perfectly. Powerlifting would be another time and place, we can't do all at once, even if we want too

    Good luck.

  8. #8
    Steve W. is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Stamford, CT
    Posts
    2,875

    Default

    Lots of good advice so far.

    With regard to ROP: You've just started it. As Dennis stated above, the goal is 1/2 BW press and 24kg x 200 snatches in 10:00. There is no problem staying on ROP for long periods of time. Even if you decide not to continue with it through the two goals above, I'd recommend sticking with it at least to the point of completing 24kg x 5 x1-5 ladders and at least 24kg x 100 snatches in 5:00. Then you will have a reasonable base before pursuing something else.

    With regard to KB Muscle: It's a great program, but having done it, I really think the minimum prerequisite is being able to double MP two 16kg bells for 10 reps. You also need to have your technique dialed in for all the exercises (Dbl swing, clean, squat, MP, push press, high pull, snatch). You will be struggling to complete sets when fatigued, so you need to start with a strong base of technique. You really can't do it with different size KBs. It's also a 12 week program (you mention cycling it in for 6 weeks), although it's divided into 2 6 week blocks, so you could conceivably do the first block as a stand alone.

    In any case, I'll join the chorus urging you to keep it simple.
    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

    Just because it happened to you doesn't make it interesting.

  9. #9
    Dimmak is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    12

    Default

    thanks @Com Stefan. yeah I felt a little in love with powerlifting.^^

    Maybe I am thinking to much in the future. (But this doesn't effect my daily routine workouts...) I take good proteins in the morning, evening and before and after Training (Weider Whey protein atm) and I do a longtime supplementation with Creatin Monohydrat. I always thought bad about these things in my past, but finally I realized to become big you have to eat big and therefor use some supps, too.

  10. #10
    Dimmak is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    12

    Default

    @ Steve W. Great! I will do it like that. Thanks for your words about the Kettlebell Muscle Program. That cleared some questions about it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Free Course
Close