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Thread: Pavels new program minimum

  1. #21
    BChase is offline Senior Member
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    Andrew, I find the same thing with getups. If I haven't done them for awhile and go heavy, it's shaky.

  2. #22
    Ace83 is offline Senior Member
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    AndrewR, bummer. It's closer to what I expected, and light years from what I had hoped. This is why it's nice to talk to honest people. In the name of justifying what they are doing, people make exaggerated claims about the efficiency of an exercise or program. I already love the getup (and the swing is OK to), but I wondered how a workout that was made up of two exercises that revolve and the ball and sockets without addressing the hinges (or to a minimum) could provide all the benefits people talk about. I love the program minimum, but its always been a way to add kettlebells to my existing lifting. On a side note, if it was my main program, and i couldn't lift weights, I would definitely be doing a lot of bodyweight work on the side. (Unless my goal was to work up to the impressive weights you did, in which case I would probably spend all my time focusing on them)
    Last edited by Ace83; 10-15-2013 at 05:47 PM.

  3. #23
    AndrewR is offline Senior Member
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    I'm not really known for being anything other than honest and to the point. That is difficult for a lot of people, particularly some who have used those exaggerated claims to profit.

    Swings and get ups are great. If they line up with your goal. They'd be a good assistance plan for a distance runner. Could be good for a swimmer too to help keep shoulders healthy. If you need to minimise bw for something like a combat sport they could fit in there too, although I've had far more success with other programs (usually based around the DL).

    Some people train and it seems to carry over to everything. That's just not the case with me, except for the C&Js, as I said.

  4. #24
    tigheguy is offline Senior Member
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    Andrew, How do you feel C&J carry over for you? In what aspects do you find they carry over most to?
    Also do you use C&J for high reps lifts or more low reps with high sets ?

    Just curious
    thank you

  5. #25
    Ace83 is offline Senior Member
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    AndrewR, just one more question. Your article has been brewing in the back of my mind since I read it. I would really like to give high volume getups a try, do you think that 60 min of getups would kill my shoulders for the next day if I was waving the load during the workout?

  6. #26
    AndrewR is offline Senior Member
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    Ace - I've done workouts that are 100 get ups in a session, once per week, so no, I don't think that is too much. You'll find if you break them down into blocks and focus on one aspect for each block the time flies by. (Sort of LOL). I've given these workouts to a few other people too, wilneedheart is one of them, so hopefully he'll see this and respond with how he found them.

    tigheguy - C&Js just allow me to do just about everything somehow. They help with snatching, they help with KB front squats, they help with swings - probably because there are component parts of each in there. I find that they blend well with running because of their fluidity, as opposed to something like pressing which can often make me stiff.

    In terms of sets/ reps I do both. At the moment doing 5/5/5 of 16s/24s/ 28s as a single set, before a 2-3 minute rest. (Modified De Lorme plan). I'll get back to 32s soon as the top step, but my leg drive isn't quite there for so many reps yet. As I go I'll be adding reps to end up at 10/10/10 for 16/24/32 so each round is 30 reps with 48kgs as the medium load. Five rounds of that should be enough

    I also quite like doing them as intervals. 10 x 60s:60s, or 5 x 2min:2min, I've even gone up to 2 x 5min:5min. Use different weights for the intervals, one that allows you to get the time limit. If you can't get more reps then either hang out in the rack, or do cleans until time runs out. At some point I may try GS as it looks challenging.

  7. #27
    tigheguy is offline Senior Member
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    I agree with you on C&J it's a great movement and I like your idea with the De lorme method. Are most or your sets hardstyle? I am a GS lifter but use both styles of lifting. Also I've seen you talk about shoulder problems before, how do you feel the C&J go with you shoulders? I have had some problems because of the high demand of GS on my shoulders

  8. #28
    Ace83 is offline Senior Member
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    AndrewR, thanks for the green light, I going to start this tonight.

  9. #29
    AndrewR is offline Senior Member
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    Faster lifts don't bother my shoulders. I know there was a certain discussion on another forum about it, but all I'll say is I have spent time at events asking who is in pain and who isn't and know that even at RKCII there used to be up to 50% of people present with shoulder issues caused by heavy pressing. These aren't newbies either but experienced RKCs. But the quick lifts don't seem to do that to people as long as they have the mobility in the first place. Many don't.

    There's actually a few Aussie RKCs who are thinking about getting into GS. I did 50 C&Js today (5 x 10) with double 24s. How you're supposed to get to 10mins with 32s is a mystery at this point!

  10. #30
    wilneedheart is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace83 View Post
    AndrewR, just one more question. Your article has been brewing in the back of my mind since I read it. I would really like to give high volume getups a try, do you think that 60 min of getups would kill my shoulders for the next day if I was waving the load during the workout?
    I don't think they will kill your shoulders because you won't be able to rely only on shoulder strength for 100 getups. What I found myself doing to take my mind off of my shoulders and wrist (the two parts of the body that I found wanted to cave in first) was to follow the advice in ETK and imagine my elbow as an energy source sending power upward to my wrist and downward into my shoulder blade. During many of the reps my mind was totally totally focused only on imagining the powerful energy coming out of my unbent elbow - it was literally the only way I was able to keep the kettlebell balanced without frying my wrist and shoulder.

    Over time I discovered that the shoulder muscles are only a small part of the body, and that I needed to find ways to use the whole of my body.

    High rep getups won't kill you the next day. To survive the ordeal you will be forced to learn to relax and still stay strong. One of the first major lessons I learned was to make sure my elbow stayed properly extended.

    P.S. If someone who has not done 100 getups imagines they know how they would feel after doing 100 getups, then they would be delusional. Even the second set of 100 the following week is remarkably different to the first set.
    Last edited by wilneedheart; 10-18-2013 at 02:52 AM.

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