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  1. #1
    HBDL is offline Junior Member
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    Default More proof of avoiding failure >

    One of Pavel's greatest contributions IMO is his assertion to avoid failure & train frequently, besides his assertion of the DL's superioriority.

    Training to failure
    Last edited by HBDL; 07-10-2018 at 01:17 AM. Reason: Correction

  2. #2
    MostlyFull is offline Senior Member
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    Did you read the article?

  3. #3
    HBDL is offline Junior Member
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    Did you?

    Conclusion

    By now we can see that always going to failure at the conclusion of every set performed isn't the mystical ideal. It doesn't have to be achieved for progress to happen. In fact, shying away allows faster recuperation, depletes less of the systems resources, and causes less wear and tear on the body. These factors may combine for an ideal environment for stimulating progress on a regular basis. So before you dismiss this approach as just another weak-willed attempt to downplay failure simply because of lack of courage or motivation, I urge you to try it out for yourself, and thrill to the weekly weight increases that spell success for any weight lifter. Who knows, you just might learn to like it!

  4. #4
    HBDL is offline Junior Member
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    It sure sounds eerily reminiscent of what Pavel asserts in PTTP to me???

  5. #5
    HBDL is offline Junior Member
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    I hope the incredibly effective very narrow range of near failure is someday scientifically analyzed. I say because all training to compete failure does is burn you out and actually shows progress.

  6. #6
    MostlyFull is offline Senior Member
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    No I mean really read the article. Like how trainees should spend a year going to failure so they know what it feels like. That his frequency went up, from one set of 8-9 with a weight that was 7-8 rep max to two sets of 5 with a five rep max. His body part workouts went from once per 8-10 days to once per week. Hardly Pavelovian.

    if you google Kevin Dye bodybuilder you will find an article on Mike Mentzers website expounding on the virtues of Heavy Duty, which is a method of HIT to failure. This was written after Mentzers death, which means he went back to HIT after he wrote the article you quote which was in a December 1999 issue of some newsletter. PTTP was not published until 2000.

    What usually happens to Trained body builders is they will try something a little different to see what happens, then return to the method they know works for them. Like Dan John says, anything will work for six weeks.

    Even so, Kevin Dye went right to the edge of failure, where Pavel suggests stopping 5 reps short. Kevin also did two sets per week and got growth, and added weight, didn't have to do the bear and spend an hour and a half doing two exercises. If you have no idea where failure is you will never get near it.

    So, in short, this really doesn't confirm anything from Pavel. It does confirm that there are many ways to achieve growth, and for Kevin Dye that means using HIT for 20-30 minutes every 8-10 days instead of volume methods that take hours a few times per week in the gym.

    There have been many scientific studies showing the benefits of working to failure. Try reading Body by Science, which is packed full of studies showing the benefits of brief, brutal, infrequent workouts. Check out Ellington Darden's website devoted to HIT, Drew Baye, John Little articles. John Little has been doing HIT for over 30 years and is not burned out or lacking progress. He's just finding new ways to use HIT, like Max contractions and Omega Sets.

    There are many ways to grow and get stronger. You can't get one without the other.
    Last edited by MostlyFull; 06-15-2018 at 07:35 AM.

  7. #7
    Chris Hansen is offline Senior Member
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    I was just wondering about the health related effects on other things besides size and strength. Even if training to failure every 8-10 days was the best way to get bigger, what would that frequency mean to, like, the cardiovascular system, or the hormones, or the other systems that benefit from exercise?

  8. #8
    MostlyFull is offline Senior Member
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    Hi Chris,

    Your cardio system gets worked very well by the training, what with at least a 4-1-4 rep pace and the last couple reps and static hold/negative taking as long as necessary. No other cardio is necessary. In fact, say you are into rowing. You may need to wait longer for full recovery. If training martial arts you may want to try a different workout method.

    You might Google Doug McGuff no cardio or Dr James Steele II no such thing as cardio for studies on how working muscles is far superior on the heart and lungs than aerobic activity.

    More advanced trainers us an upper/lower split with 5 or so days between workouts, so like upper on Sunday, lower on Friday, upper on Wednesday, etc. 3 to 4 exercises per workout.
    Full body workouts are up to 10 exercises 30 seconds between, a minute or two if you are getting light headed.

    if you check out 15 minute corporate warrior website, it is full of podcasts and videos devoted to all things HIT. Your questions about hormones can probably be answered there.
    Last edited by MostlyFull; 06-15-2018 at 09:58 AM.

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