Some more thoughts about training

[Jimmy Todd]

Everyone,

I have been thinking about the Party way to train and the Russian way to train. Let me first start by saying that I am a multiple sets of low reps junkie, but some things just don't make sense to me.

First off, if specificity rules then why is it implied that the best way to train for competition is multiple sets of low reps? A competition breaks all of our "rules" - one set taken to maximum reps. It would seem logical that to train for that would necessitate the breaking of some of these rules. I just don't see how multiple low reps sets will prepare the organism for maximum rep performance. It would seem that a foray into high rep land is needed.

Second, consider the following things:

- In the RKC book Pavel states that ballistics can be done to the hundreds of reps.
- In the RKC book, the Russian workouts in the back are not party line. There are a lot of reps in those drills.
- In Dmitri Sataev's article he presents a snatch and jerk ladder that would have you doing 10x10 for both lifts in one workout.
- Andrey Kuzmin's book has a percentage of max reps as the basis for routine. Later as one develops the ability to do reps for sets of multiple minutes the percentages can be translated over to the 10 minute competition time limit.
- Pavel noted in his newsletter that the world champion does time ladders up to 10 minutes of continuous reps. The time ladder is a lot like Andrey's time based workouts.

I am not saying that the party way is wrong, but it seems that whenever anything of Russian origin is discovered it is higher in volume than we are "supposed" to be doing. I also remember reading that in the training hall tape the Russians are dong some crazy assistance work.

The workouts I posted today are based on what Andrey has been communicating to me in emails about how Russians train. It raised my eyebrows to see it and it raised a few eyebrows around here when I posted it.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I am always one to question accepted beliefs and this one has got me thinking there may be more to this than meets the eye.

Regards,
Jim

PS - I am doing these workouts for the next couple of months to see where they lead me.

[Metalhead]

I think it's that grinds should be done multi sets of low reps, but ballistics can be done either way...

[MikeTheBear]

Like you said, competition breaks all the rules. I think the advice to use low reps, many sets, short rests between sets applies to those who use KBs for general fitness - the KB is used as a means to an end (i.e., fitness) rather than an end in itself (i.e., a KB meet). To accomplish that, you want stay safe (keep reps low so fatigue doesn't cause you to bonk yourself on your head) and you want to stay relatively fresh - not "too fresh" that you don't get your heart rate going but not so run down that you can't participate in MA, or military training, or other activity that is the "end" for which you need to increase your fitness, and KBs are just a means to that end.

In a competition, none of that matters because your goal is to maximize your reps with the KB. To do that you need to push your reps up, plain and simple, because using low-rep sets, even with short rest periods, will not prepare your body to go the distance. I've experienced this while running. I generally run 30/30 intervals with 30 seconds at a fast pace and 30 slow. Great for general fitness, fat loss, and it spares muscle tissue. This method sucks if I ever wanted to go a longer distance. That's because my body is adjusted to slowing down every 30 seconds. Whenver I try to go for a longer period of time, even at a moderate pace, my body says, "Hey, you're supposed to slow down after 30 seconds - what the hell!"

[Rob Lawrence]

Jim,

I know what you mean and I addressed this same issue in my post on high- and low-rep training a few days ago. As I said, ultimately you have to get to high-rep, i.e. percentage of one-set max, training. I think rushing into this mode of training is a mistake however. I will get there when I get there. There is a lot of gain to be had using techniques like density training before you have to go to long sets. This is particularly true for the jerk with its strong technical components. Repeating something badly, over and over, can be a good way to guarantee you'll always do it badly.

Also remember Pavel does not assume in his books that he is training athletes. Quite the contrary. Look at the volume stuff he has promoted in Milo and elsewhere and that will give you an idea of how he *would* train athletes.

Keep questioning and keep training. There's a right answer for every season.

Rob

[Jimmy Todd]

If I jerk 50 times badly and someone else jerks 40 times in perfect form - I win.

Here's some more food for thought:

- Never train the snatch or jerk in sets that are less than 30% of your rep max.
- Do 3-6 sets of snatches or jerks. Hover between 30%-80%. If you remember reading how Pavel said he likes to train singles (no set progression - bounce around to keep your body guessing). Same thing here.
- Do snatch or jerk assistance on the same day as the drill.
- Run for endurance.
- Test your self once a month. Conservative test under simulated competition conditions.

Keep questioning and keep training.

If I may bore you with my meager workout from this morning:

Snatch - 24kg 4 sets (7, 9, 13, 11)
Rest 10 minutes
Pullups BW 3x2 - 30 second hang at the end.
Swings - 32kg 3 sets (5/5, 10/10, 5/5)
Farmer's walk - 64kg for 1 minute, 48 kg for 1 minute

Regards,
Jim

[DanMartin]

I'm new to kettlebell training (six weeks) but I've been around the block a few times with the weights. My perspective is one of a middle-age man, trying to learn a new skill.

Kettlebell lifting is rather simple, but it certainly isn't easy. Typically most American lifters want to complicate the deal. Really a classic example of; "if two exercises are good, four must be better, and six best yet."

It seems that the obvious route would be to master the basics. That takes a long time, doing a lot of reps and sets. With getting a lot of workouts in over the course of months and years being key.

Patience + Persistance = Progress

But what do I know?

[Rob Lawrence]

> If I jerk 50 times badly and someone else jerks 40 times in perfect form - I win.

It's easier to jerk 40 times perfectly than it is 50 times badly. Best form means the best rep count. Watch the VA tape and see.

Rob

[Jimmy Todd]

From what I hear your technique is excellent and above reproach.

Serious question above based on your assertion that technique is the most important part of the competition.

Still questioning... ;-)

JR

[TheCreeper]

I don't have nearly the experience that many do on this forum, but I don't quite understand why there is made such a clear distinction between the two training methods.

Supposing the following are true (and they seem to make a lot of sense):
1. The Russian way of training (higher reps per set) is optimal for maximizing one's abilities to succeed at competition (maximum reps per one set).
2. Many shorter sets (density style training) is optimal for training general fitness.

Now it seems to me that given the physical demands of succeeding at competition that #2 would certainly help in getting you in shape to succeed at competition, though you would certainly have to concentrate on #1.

So why not train both ways? Some days concentrate on a set/rep methodology that is more specific to competition, and other days concentrate on a set/rep methodology that is less specific to competition and more geared to general fitness?

If nothing else, this would add variety to one's training?

[Steve Knapstein RKC]

Jim,

Rob does have excellent tecnique in both of the competition lifts but Rob, Brett, Jeff Crews, and myself were thoroughly outclassed by Alex Makarov. It was obvious after his second rep that the meet was his. Alexs' performance alone makes the VA tape worth buying.

Steve