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  1. #1
    dkaler is offline Senior Member
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    Default ATTN: Powerlifter54 - answer to question about OH squats

    Jack,

    Thanks very much for your response to my post the other day on OH squats. You'd asked why I wanted to do them. I'd printed an article out a while back from Mike Mahler's website on EDT training for gaining strength and size. In a nutshell, the workout involves going back & forth between two exercises that involve "antagonistic" muscle groups, with upper & lower body exercises done on alternating days with one day rest in between. Here's the link to the article:

    http://www.powerathletesmag.com/pages/edtworkout.htm

    I'd printed it out quite a while back & had wanted to give it a try for some time. I've been doing NW workouts lately, with some KB & other bodyweight work thrown in & had been working on getting my body fat down. Got down to about 10.5% bf, and have been stymied there for a while, so I thought I'd get away from the fat loss focus, and after I reevaluated I decided I'd concentrate on some strict strength training routines and try to put a little muscle on as well, since I'm afraid that I've lost some muscle during my fat loss training.

    Sorry if this is more info than you need - basically no specific reason for doing the OH squats, I just wanted to give Mike Mahler's routine a try. I'd have no problem substituting another drill for the OH squats that would fit the outline of the routine, I'm just uncertain as to what would work the best. In any case, I found the OH squats to be very difficult, but didn't know if the problem was in my execution of them or not. Anyway, that's pretty much it. I welcome any further suggestions/input. Thanks again.

    Darren

  2. #2
    powerlifter54 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Like Mike's article and Staley's idea, but

    dkaler,

    Good stuff all of it. I just don't prefer that exercise selection. If you are trying to get bigger and or stronger, you need heavier weights. Tension helps you lift big weights, it does not take the place of it. It takes a lot of skill and tension throughout your body to do a one arm overhead squat, but it still is only 72 pounds load on your legs.

    You can get very "fit" with bodyweight stuff, and pretty strong core wise doing stuff like overhead squats or Turkish Get Ups, but you will not gain the muscle or strength you would get from going heavier.

    Good mixes:
    Squats/Deadlifts
    Bench/Row
    Military Press/Pullup
    Good morning/Standing Ab Curl
    French press/Scott curl
    DB ext/hammer curl

    The problem presents itself that unless you are doing pure isolation movements, you often are hitting the same muscles. For example, the deeper you squat the more hamstring you use. Both the lat and the tricep retract the upper arm behing the torso. Rear delts stabilize both MP and pullup movements.

    Mixing a lower body complex exercise with an upper body complex exercise gives an interesting wrinkle, mix it up like this:

    Squat/Bench
    Deadlift/Military press
    Good Morning/Pullup

    Finally, do the EDT but focus on one exercise and the second is just to enhance recovery for the first.

    So push the bench, and do lat pulldowns light(under 60% intensity)or push the squats and do some band good mornings.

    I think you would be fine doing Mike's program. Just need to focus on what you are after.

    jmo
    jack

  3. #3
    MudPhud2 is offline Senior Member
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    Default OH Squats...

    are a favorite of some field athletes (as in Track and Field) because of the core power/arm-to-legs link. I've done some front squats at moderate (for me) poundages, and I've felt it as much in my abs as my quads. Actually more in my abs. I was doing an EDT superset of Good Mornings and Front Sq at the time.

    But my main leg exercise at the time was deadlifts (still is), I defer to pl54 on the rest and would agree--for stronger legs, lift bigger weights.

  4. #4
    Ross Hunt is offline Senior Member
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    Default That's a really interesting idea;

    Doing EDT with exercises of different intensities would never have occured to me. A question, though:

    Would you keep one exercise heavy and the other light for a couple weeks, and then switch, or would you go Bench heavy/ Pull-ups light on one workout and Bench light/ Pull-ups heavy on the next?

    Thanks,

    Ross Hunt

  5. #5
    dkaler is offline Senior Member
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    Default Thanks Jack

    I'm going to print out your suggestions as a reference. I think the EDT will work fine - I tried a version of it once with pullups alone when I was just trying to increase the number of reps I could do. I had some success but fell short of what I was shooting for (20 reps), but I think I'd really overworked them and was probably shooting for something that was unrealistic for the amount of time I used the routine, since I didn't switch off to another routine and come back to the EDT.

    I guess I'll stick with it for a while and change it up a little. Maybe I'll go with Mike's program for a couple of weeks & substitute something for the overheads and then switch over to the drills you suggest. My body seems to respond well to changing up routines fairly often (2 or 3 weeks on one routine). Don't have a lat pulldown machine (used to but I sold it) - I work out in my garage, so I'll do pullups instead of lat pulldowns. If I stick with body weight only, I can keep the intensity pretty light if I need to.

    Darren

  6. #6
    powerlifter54 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Ross and Darren

    many times after benching very heavy, i will either knockout some easy sets of 10 in the wide grip pulldown to sternum or v grip pulldown, or i will chin myself for sets of 5. Sometimes i am just too beat to hammer my lats.Here is a good place to use the 60% rule. Either use 60% of the weight and keep the reps the same, or keep the weight(or bodyweight) the same, and do 60% of the reps. Every 3 weeks changeing exercises is a great idea. In the EDT thing i would bet it work great, mixing the exercises, pushing one or both, upper/lower body or push/pull. You will be mentaly and physically fresh, and learn a lot about how your body responds.

    Experimenting is fun and how you learn.

    jack

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