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Thread: Gary Taubes

  1. #1
    zeppelin6601 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Gary Taubes

    Has anybody read that article he wrote for the NY Times in '02? I know at least one person has seeing as I found out about it from this site (thanks btw to whomever posted it).

    I was curious on what people thought of the article, and Fumento's response to it. I personally found it to be thought-provoking and well-written. I also found Fumento's article to be incredibly hostile and unprofessional, but maybe I want to believe that a low carb diet can work, leaving me a little bit bias in the whole situation. I did find it amusing, however, that Fumento would accuse Taubes of "selling out," only to name-drop his own damn book a few sentences later.

    So what is everbody else's opinion on the subject?

  2. #2
    D-Rock is offline Senior Member
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    Yes, very good article. Since you liked it so much, you should get his book "Good Calories, Bad Calories". It's a great piece of work with some things that will turn your head when it comes to what is "common knowledge".

    It's a dense read though. When Taubes began to write it, he had to decide who his audience was going to be. He decided to go technical and aim his first book at the doctors and health professionals. He's working on a follow up that covers the same topics, but in a lighter version that is aimed at the lay person.

  3. #3
    Kvalhion is offline Junior Member
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    I am reading Good Calories, Bad Calories right now and I agree that it is a pretty dense read. I like a book that references a lot of studies and reference material but it is more of a textbook than a guide as to what to eat or not eat.

    I think the idea of keeping carbohydrates in check and to get them from healthy, unprocessed sources is pretty well established these days.

  4. #4
    mc
    mc is offline Senior Member
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    oh wow taube is marketing mainly. nothing to blame really. everyone has to eat/make a living. and he does it by crucifying a certain form of a certain macronutrient. ok.

    but are calories really the issue? and why pick on starchy carbs? or demonize any macronutrient? starchy carbs have their place, too. they are not evil. In fact, there's good arguments to show we're wired to go get 'em, and for good reason, once upon a time.

    and fundamentally, we can convert a lot of crap into fuel. it's that metabolic flexibility thing.

    so once you take pollen's advice to eat food, mostly plants, and less of it, what else is at issue? our our obesity/weight problems really about the calorie?

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  5. #5
    D-Rock is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kvalhion View Post
    I am reading Good Calories, Bad Calories right now and I agree that it is a pretty dense read. I like a book that references a lot of studies and reference material but it is more of a textbook than a guide as to what to eat or not eat.

    I think the idea of keeping carbohydrates in check and to get them from healthy, unprocessed sources is pretty well established these days.
    I don't know how far along you are but it becomes easier to read after you get out of the early chapters. My mind was reeling from all the acronyms of organizations and studies he was referencing and the individuals who belonged to them ("Oh that guy, who was he working for again?").

  6. #6
    D-Rock is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mc View Post
    but are calories really the issue?
    You should read the book, it's good. And calories are not the issue. He cites study after study to show that the number of calories are not the issue when it comes to obesity.

  7. #7
    vinceh4 is offline Senior Member
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    I am not buying it, and I used to do Atkins in the 80s to drop a quick 10 lbs before PT tests to help my long wingspan with rope pull ups (way before "Sugar Busters").

    I think there is another "X" factor. I grew up in the 70s. If a box said "vitamin C" or "Fortified" it was considered healthy. We ate so much sugar and carbs. Everyone did. There was the "sugar bear" and Super Sugar Crisps, and Sugar Pops not to mention Fruit Loops, Trix are for kids, Apple Jacks, Count Chocula. The only healthy stuff was advertised by Yule Gibbons and it was still loaded with sugar.

    We had Fruit loops for breakfast, white Wonder Bread (built strong bones and teeth) PB&Js w/ Dorritos and Hostess Cupcakes for lunch. Cookies after school and then Hamburger Helper or some caserole for dinner. Steak, fried chicken, and roasts were often 1-2 times a week and reserved for weekends, and still there was plenty of mashed potatoes.

    Everyone ate like this. We were all loaded up on Hi-C (it was healthy because it had vit C), tang, Kool-Aid, Cola and Nestle's Quick. Sugar was not evil yet and Pritikin had just published and everyone was scratching their heads puffing away on a cigerette and debating whether this new Lite Beer was a passing fad.

    The obesity has to be tied to something else. Maybe it is the lack of fat and the fat free products that proliferated in the 80s, or high fructose corn syrup or trans fats. I do not remember when corn syrup began to dominate, or trans fats. Parkay was only about a decade and a half old.

    I don't believe it was related to just sugar and carbs. Everyone in the 60s and 70s had tons of it coarsing through their veins and obesity was not prevelant. Must be something else.

  8. #8
    vinceh4 is offline Senior Member
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    ...nobody drank freakin Tab either. Diet Coke came out in 82.

  9. #9
    D-Rock is offline Senior Member
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    I wouldn't say everyone. I had nowhere near the sugar intake you describe, and my parents weren't health nuts, they were just average folks.

  10. #10
    vinceh4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Rock View Post
    I wouldn't say everyone. I had nowhere near the sugar intake you describe, and my parents weren't health nuts, they were just average folks.
    Maybe so, but if we are talking about the 70s and late 60s, did you drink nothing but water and milk?

    Sugar and starch were everywhere. This was before the microwave. Convenience was marketed big time. The "physical culture" had just begun with Jim Fix and Nautalis. Granola bars were brand new.

    But these staples were present: Ragu spagetti sauce, Chef boy r d crap, Devils Food ham and whatever, Miracle whip, Alphbit soup and cereal, Bisquick, Budigg Ham, Peter Pan, white crackers, grahm crackers, the Keebler stuff, Hostess, Vienna sauseges, Cambells, Kellog and Post, etc.

    There was no "wheat bread" alternative. There was "Beafsteak Rye" but I doubt many kids scarfed that down. The produce sections contained mounds of onions, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes and especailly... iceburg lettuce (maybe some strawberries here and there, plus bananas, apples, grape fruit and oranges).

    In grocery stores, there was no "deli". Round steak was plentiful but tasted like shoe leather, unless someone beat the hell out of it, cooked it all day and covered it in spices; like salt and pepper - and campbels mushroom soup. There were few pre cut chickens, you could by a whole or a half, and you had to clean it.

    Maybe you ate Cambell's vegy soup and Rice Krispy's (snap crackle and pop).

    Here is their nutritional values today...maybe they were better back then, however:

    Cambells vegy soup

    Nutrition Facts
    Serving Size 1/2 cup (126.0 g)

    Amount Per Serving
    Calories 100
    Calories from Fat 5
    % Daily Value*
    Total Fat 0.5g
    1%
    Saturated Fat 0.5g
    3%
    Cholesterol 5mg
    2%
    Sodium 890mg
    37%
    Total Carbohydrates 20.0g
    7%
    Dietary Fiber 3.0g
    12%
    Sugars 7.0g
    Protein 4.0g

    Vitamin A 60% • Vitamin C 0%
    Calcium 2% • Iron 4%
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Rice Krispys

    Nutrition Facts
    Serving Size


    Amount Per Serving
    Calories 128
    Calories from Fat 3
    % Daily Value*
    Total Fat 0.3g
    0%
    Saturated Fat 0.1g
    0%
    Trans Fat 0.0g
    Polyunsaturated Fat 0.1g
    Monounsaturated Fat 0.1g
    Cholesterol 0mg
    0%
    Sodium 299mg
    12%
    Total Carbohydrates 28.1g
    9%
    Dietary Fiber 0.3g
    1%
    Sugars 3.1g
    Protein 2.3g

    Vitamin A 12% • Vitamin C 15%
    Calcium 0% • Iron 63%

    If your family made everything from scratch, then you were lucky. I hope it was not pancakes from Bisquick, or biscuits and gravy, or chicken and dumplings.

    I honestly do not know when or what you ate, but it was nothing but starch and sugar way back for most. Produce was limited. Most other vegies were frozen and canned. Most kids hated them.

    ....and no one knew what a wok was unless they were looking into health and the newly emerging fitness culture.

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