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  1. #21
    Dano3000 is offline Senior Member
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    I'm the type of vegan that eats other peoples dogs to prove my points about compassion, Does that count?
    Also, how vegan you are should depend on the quantity and quality of vegan woman around you, imo. Its more ethical that way...or something.

  2. #22
    MI_KB'r is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Schul View Post
    Being a vegan is like saying F@CK YOU to evolution. If anything dump the nutritionally void vegetation and center your diet around meats, eggs and dairy if you handle it well.
    Your joking right? Exactly how are vegetables nutritionally void? Most vegetables have a greater various and amount of nutrients than any meat. This isnt even a matter of debate. Compare any vegetables and meat you want with easily found nutrition tables online.

  3. #23
    Zach Schul Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_KB'r View Post
    Your joking right? Exactly how are vegetables nutritionally void? Most vegetables have a greater various and amount of nutrients than any meat. This isnt even a matter of debate. Compare any vegetables and meat you want with easily found nutrition tables online.
    Not that i have to because your comment is absurd (maybe you should take your own advice). Here you go, beef liver vs broccoli, 100g. (i only included stuff over 10%)

    Beef liver, 100g
    cal - 191
    Pro - 29g
    Fat - 5g
    Vit A - 639%
    Riboflavon - 201%
    B12 - 1176%
    Niacin - 88%
    B6 - 63%
    Folate - 63%
    Thiamin - 13%
    Panto Acid - 71%
    Choline - 426mg
    Iron - 36%
    phosphorus - 50%
    Potassium - 10%
    Zinc - 35%
    Copper - 714%
    Mangenese - 15%
    Selenium - 52%


    Broccoli, 100g
    Cal - 34
    Pro - 3g
    Fat - 0g
    Vit C - 149%
    Vit K - 127%
    Folate - 16%
    Mangenese - 10%


    Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com (WFS)
    As you can see eating 3.5oz of liver is like taking a multivitamin along with a meals worth of protein and some fat to boot. A cup of broccoli is like.. well void. Go ahead and put other meats and veg up against each other. You will find you have to eat literally a boat load to get any quality nutrition out of veg and you simply cant compare it to animal products.

  4. #24
    MI_KB'r is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Schul View Post
    Not that i have to because your comment is absurd (maybe you should take your own advice). Here you go, beef liver vs broccoli, 100g. (i only included stuff over 10%)

    Beef liver, 100g
    cal - 191
    Pro - 29g
    Fat - 5g
    Vit A - 639%
    Riboflavon - 201%
    B12 - 1176%
    Niacin - 88%
    B6 - 63%
    Folate - 63%
    Thiamin - 13%
    Panto Acid - 71%
    Choline - 426mg
    Iron - 36%
    phosphorus - 50%
    Potassium - 10%
    Zinc - 35%
    Copper - 714%
    Mangenese - 15%
    Selenium - 52%


    Broccoli, 100g
    Cal - 34
    Pro - 3g
    Fat - 0g
    Vit C - 149%
    Vit K - 127%
    Folate - 16%
    Mangenese - 10%


    Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com (WFS)
    As you can see eating 3.5oz of liver is like taking a multivitamin along with a meals worth of protein and some fat to boot. A cup of broccoli is like.. well void. Go ahead and put other meats and veg up against each other. You will find you have to eat literally a boat load to get any quality nutrition out of veg and you simply cant compare it to animal products.
    Nutrition Facts


    Amount Per Serving
    Calories
    189.4
    Calories from Fat
    47.0
    Fat
    5.2g
    Saturated Fat 1.7g
    Polyunsaturated Fat0.66g
    Monounsaturated Fat 0.64g
    Cholesterol 392.7mg 131%
    Funny. A multivitamin with 131% RDA of cholesterol packed into 3.5oz.
    Although this could go on indefinately and this will be my last in this thread becuase its a non-issue.
    100 calories of each
    Broccoli /Sirloin Steak/ Romaine Lettuce/ Kale
    Protein 11.2 gm 5.4 gm 7.5 gm 11 gm
    Calcium 322 mg 2.4 mg 374 mg 470 mg
    Iron 3.5 mg .7 mg 7.7 mg 5.8 mg
    Magnesium 74.5 mg 5 mg 60.5 mg 97 mg
    Fiber 4.7 g 0 4 g 3.4 g
    Phytochemicals Very High 0 Very High Very High
    Antioxidants Very High 0 Very High Very High
    Folate 257 mcg 3 mcg 969 mcg 60 mcgB2 .71 mg .04 mg .45 mg .32 mg
    Niacin 2.8 mg 1.1 mg 2.2 mg 2.1 mg
    Zinc 1.04 mg 1.2 mg 1.2 mg gm .55 mg
    Vitamin C 350 mg 0 100 mg 329 mg
    Vitamin A 7750 IU 24 IU 10,450 IU 23,407 IU
    Vitamin E 26 IU 0 32 IU 34 IU
    Cholesterol 0 5.5 mg 0 0
    Weight 307 gm 24 gm 550 gm 266 gm(10.6 oz) (.84 oz) (19 oz) (9.2 oz)

    And by the way If you just go by nutrient density

    The higher the score, the more nutrient dense the item.
    Now I'm done
    Last edited by MI_KB'r; 02-17-2011 at 11:28 PM.

  5. #25
    Chiggers Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Schul View Post
    I dont care what anyone eats besides my family. just pointing out facts backed up by real science and evolution. Being a true vegan is a unstustainable way of life (so far none of you are true vegans btw so i dont know why your getting your panties in a twist) and it will lead to problems down the road.

    Now if you claim vegan but indulge in a big plate of ribs once a week, get vitamins from animal sources and take a dairy based protein powder, well then i think you will be ok. Just quick calling yourself vegan.
    Ok on the advice of others I will stop feeding the troll. If you aren't a troll you are a troublemaker. In future if we interact please read a little more carefully. I never stated I am a vegan. I said I eat vegan at home mainly because of my partner. Something I am happy to do as it ensures I eat well and very healthily.

    I am sure pure veganism is sustainable. Not really my ideal but still sustainable if that's your choice.

    Zach I woud stop worrying about diet and concern yourself with working on your psychology.

    Out,

    Chiggers

  6. #26
    Com. Stefan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Schul View Post
    I dont care what anyone eats besides my family. just pointing out facts backed up by real science and evolution. Being a true vegan is a unstustainable way of life (so far none of you are true vegans btw so i dont know why your getting your panties in a twist) and it will lead to problems down the road.

    Now if you claim vegan but indulge in a big plate of ribs once a week, get vitamins from animal sources and take a dairy based protein powder, well then i think you will be ok. Just quick calling yourself vegan.
    Bollocks. Again I point you to Mike Mahler.

  7. #27
    Danko is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Schul View Post
    O

    Compared to meat they certainly are. Veganism is just an unsustainable way of eating, eventually the malnurishment and antinutrients will catch up to you. Good luck all who believe its possible to be a healthy vegan.
    Meat has zero carbs so any half-serious athlete could not eat a total meat diet. There is lactose in milk but not everyone can digest and utilise it. Negligible carbs in eggs.

    Anyone eating a total meat diet could be deficient in some vitamins. Meat is not a good source of water-soluble vitamins. Vegetables are. They also contain adequate amounts of fat siluble its apart from D, which is manufactured by the body when exposed to sunlight.

    Answering the OP, vegans have higher T levels than others. British Journal of Cancer - Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men

    NB I have been a vegan for my entire adult life. My bone density is excellent and I have no deficiencies. I don't supplement with anything apart from occasional brewers' yeast for B12. I don't eat nuts seeds or soy for protein, and don't take any protein powders. I am not advocating a vegan diet and I am not one for any moral reason. Definitely not a vegan zealot and they p*** e off as uch as anyone. I am simply hoping to argue that vegan diets can provide everything we need, should anyone want to switch for whatever reason, without supplements.

    If the OP belives he/she would benefit fro supplements, Mahler's the man and he will design a diet for you.

  8. #28
    Zach Schul Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_KB'r View Post
    Nutrition Facts


    Amount Per Serving
    Calories
    189.4
    Calories from Fat
    47.0
    Fat
    5.2g
    Saturated Fat 1.7g
    Polyunsaturated Fat0.66g
    Monounsaturated Fat 0.64g
    Cholesterol 392.7mg 131%
    Funny. A multivitamin with 131% RDA of cholesterol packed into 3.5oz.
    Although this could go on indefinately and this will be my last in this thread becuase its a non-issue.
    100 calories of each
    Broccoli /Sirloin Steak/ Romaine Lettuce/ Kale
    Protein 11.2 gm 5.4 gm 7.5 gm 11 gm
    Calcium 322 mg 2.4 mg 374 mg 470 mg
    Iron 3.5 mg .7 mg 7.7 mg 5.8 mg
    Magnesium 74.5 mg 5 mg 60.5 mg 97 mg
    Fiber 4.7 g 0 4 g 3.4 g
    Phytochemicals Very High 0 Very High Very High
    Antioxidants Very High 0 Very High Very High
    Folate 257 mcg 3 mcg 969 mcg 60 mcgB2 .71 mg .04 mg .45 mg .32 mg
    Niacin 2.8 mg 1.1 mg 2.2 mg 2.1 mg
    Zinc 1.04 mg 1.2 mg 1.2 mg gm .55 mg
    Vitamin C 350 mg 0 100 mg 329 mg
    Vitamin A 7750 IU 24 IU 10,450 IU 23,407 IU
    Vitamin E 26 IU 0 32 IU 34 IU
    Cholesterol 0 5.5 mg 0 0
    Weight 307 gm 24 gm 550 gm 266 gm(10.6 oz) (.84 oz) (19 oz) (9.2 oz)

    And by the way If you just go by nutrient density

    The higher the score, the more nutrient dense the item.
    Now I'm done
    You will check back because you know you are putting up bullshit. You cant compare 100 calories of meat to 100 calories of kale, broccoli or romaine lettuce and you know why? No one in their right mind would try to eat that much veg in one sitting or even a day! 100 cal or lettuce is what, 5+ heads? This is a ridiculous argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chiggers View Post
    Ok on the advice of others I will stop feeding the troll. If you aren't a troll you are a troublemaker. In future if we interact please read a little more carefully. I never stated I am a vegan. I said I eat vegan at home mainly because of my partner. Something I am happy to do as it ensures I eat well and very healthily.

    I am sure pure veganism is sustainable. Not really my ideal but still sustainable if that's your choice.

    Zach I woud stop worrying about diet and concern yourself with working on your psychology.

    Out,

    Chiggers
    Ah yes, the last ditch effort of a losing argument is to turn to name calling. Ok your done, stick your head back in the sand and forget science. Im sure you don't believe in evolution either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Com. Stefan View Post
    Bollocks. Again I point you to Mike Mahler.
    Again, Mike Mahler takes a ridiculous amount of supplements, yes hes a full on vegan but he needs a great amount of moneys worth of supps to stay in great shape. No wonder he came out with his own line, gotta support the habit. Also he has had issues with hormones in the past, im not sure if this is related.



    Quote Originally Posted by Danko View Post
    Meat has zero carbs so any half-serious athlete could not eat a total meat diet. There is lactose in milk but not everyone can digest and utilise it. Negligible carbs in eggs.

    Anyone eating a total meat diet could be deficient in some vitamins. Meat is not a good source of water-soluble vitamins. Vegetables are. They also contain adequate amounts of fat siluble its apart from D, which is manufactured by the body when exposed to sunlight.

    Answering the OP, vegans have higher T levels than others. British Journal of Cancer - Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men

    NB I have been a vegan for my entire adult life. My bone density is excellent and I have no deficiencies. I don't supplement with anything apart from occasional brewers' yeast for B12. I don't eat nuts seeds or soy for protein, and don't take any protein powders. I am not advocating a vegan diet and I am not one for any moral reason. Definitely not a vegan zealot and they p*** e off as uch as anyone. I am simply hoping to argue that vegan diets can provide everything we need, should anyone want to switch for whatever reason, without supplements.

    If the OP belives he/she would benefit fro supplements, Mahler's the man and he will design a diet for you.
    Im also not advocating an all meat diet although it can be done and is done by cultures unlike an all veg diet. I believe in a whole foods diet with plenty of fiberous veg and starch like sweet potatoes for performance. Veg should be a part of most meals but the meat is the meal, no mistake and the veg is filler/added nutrients.

    I dont really know what i am arguing, most vegans would rather close their eyes, cover their ears and start screaming before listening to any reason.

    May i ask what your height/weight/bodyfat?

  9. #29
    Danko is offline Senior Member
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    Zach, you called vegetation nutritionally void. Now they are an addition. Make your mind up.

    FWIW: 5'11. 12st 6lb. Body fat % - I don't know. More than I would want because I like beer and takeouts, like anyone else.

    I am not a 'blind' vegan because I have no moral reason to be one.I have my reasons and am always keeping an open mind.

    Do you?

  10. #30
    Zach Schul Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danko View Post
    Zach, you called vegetation nutritionally void. Now they are an addition. Make your mind up.

    FWIW: 5'11. 12st 6lb. Body fat % - I don't know. More than I would want because I like beer and takeouts, like anyone else.

    I am not a 'blind' vegan because I have no moral reason to be one.I have my reasons and am always keeping an open mind.

    Do you?
    I called them a filler, and they do have a bit of nutrition but compared to animal products they are void. This isnt a hard concept. I am open minded, im just voicing my opinion about veganism not being optimal for testosterone or health in general.

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