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  1. #21
    mhanch is offline Senior Member
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    Great Thread an post pat. I started a Paleo diet this year and it works wonders.

    People have a very hard time breaking with the "low-fat for health" paradigm. You wrote this up well.
    I understand that fear is my friend, but not always. Never turn your back on fear. It should always be in front of you, like a thing that might have to be killed. - HST

  2. #22
    miller is offline Senior Member
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    Pat - I see that you include cheese and milk in your style, while the Slow Carb style recommends eliminating both. Do you see any advantage in elimating these?

    I've been an avid ESE follower for 2 years now, with great success, but am thinking of giving this low carb stuff a try for a few weeks just to try something new and see what it's all about and how it compares.

  3. #23
    Pat Flynn RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller View Post
    Pat - I see that you include cheese and milk in your style, while the Slow Carb style recommends eliminating both. Do you see any advantage in elimating these?

    I've been an avid ESE follower for 2 years now, with great success, but am thinking of giving this low carb stuff a try for a few weeks just to try something new and see what it's all about and how it compares.
    Hey Miller,

    I only drink whole raw milk. I would not recomment anything else. Cheese is perfectly fine, but I again opt for cheese made from whole raw milk.

    I am a month into ESE and here is what I've concluded so far in comparison to a low carb diet. ESE will make you lose weight, especially if you eat clean on your non-fasting days. I've lost a little over 7lbs, but these 7lbs are certainly not all body fat. Now I went into ESE with a very low body fat percentage so there is something to be said about that. But with the high fat ketogenic diet, I was able to shed body fat while maintaining/adding muscle mass and making consistent strength gains.

    Now if your goals are to simply put on as much mass as possible then the high fat ketogenic diet is not going to be the best option for that(insulin is an incredibly anabolic hormone and you primarily need carbs to stimulate the release of insulin). That's not to say that you can't tack on muscle with the high fat ketogenic diet, because you certainly can( I added 15lbs of lean muscle over this past summer, and all I was really eating after a workout was about 4-6 organic raw eggs -You can watch me eat raw eggs here ).

    I think Tim Ferris is a very smart guy, but I really don't feel like he is introducing anything new with his "slow carb diet". And in terms of maximizing fat loss results I would certainly say that ketogenic > "slow carb" . If nothing else, a high fat ketogenic diet won't have you constantly wasting money on Beano and Gas-x :P

  4. #24
    kodo kb is offline Senior Member
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    Great post Pat, thanks for sharing. I'm just starting out the Paleo diet, and this information has made it that much easier. I have a question if you don't mind answering it--After your body is in ketosis for a long time, how much would eating carbs mess with your ability to re-enter ketosis? Would I start from day one, and have to go through a couple low-energy days, or does the fact that I was previously in ketosis for a long stretch of time increase my ability to re-enter that state? I'm just wondering how one small cheat meal, or a social meal where I'd have/want to eat something with carbohydrates (pizza party or what-have-you), would effect the ketosis state of my body.

    Cheers,
    Josh
    "I can't imagine how it WON'T work...save you not doing it." — Dan John

    "I never went to the gym to "work out". Rather I went to LEARN. The workout was incidental." — Dr. Ed Thomas

  5. #25
    Pat Flynn RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Hey Josh,

    One thing that you will learn over time once you are ketogenic is what you can get away with and what you can't. Everyone is different so it's difficult for me to give you an exact answer. Dr. Ellis had some good information on this, I'll see if I can dig the link up and share it; but what he said is that for him, he has figured out that after being in a state of prolonged ketosis he can get away with having an occasional "cheat meal" like a having a couple bites of an ice cream cone I believe he put it. For me however, I never have a cheat meal so I haven't experimented too much as to what I can and can not get away with. I honestly never crave to have a cheat meal, which I think is one of the beautiful things about the ketogenic diet; is that it helps to eliminate that craving for carbs and sweets.

  6. #26
    ransdawg is offline Junior Member
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    What do you think about adding bee pollen would it be ok to add to a ketogenic diet. I have allegies in the spring and it has helped me out a bunch before. Thanks for any replies.

    Aaron

  7. #27
    Pat Flynn RKC is offline Senior Member
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    I see no problems with adding a little bee pollen

  8. #28
    jetronin is offline Senior Member
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    Love the food pyramid.Saved to my desktop.Good article too.Thanks for the link.

  9. #29
    Pat Flynn RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Anytime! Glad you enjoyed it

  10. #30
    Kettlbell-er is offline Senior Member
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    Pat, how sustainable would you say this diet is in the long term?

    Having seen great results so far, and the whole science and idea behind the diet really clicks with me. I carb load on Friday after my last workout of the week, and through to Saturday afternoon-ish.

    Do you keep this diet year round?
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