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  1. #21
    Scotsfan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbria View Post
    I'm in the Paleo camp, but not because it is what our ancestors ate, because it just makes good common sense to me. It is really a no brainer that the less processed and natural your food is the better it is for you.

    I have food allergies/sensativities though. I have problems with diary, grains (except I can have wild rice), and beans. Also if I eat to many carbs at once I fall asleep so I dont' eat potatoes much either. So Paleo fit right in line with how I need to eat to feel my best. Although I went on Paleo because I was pretty much addicted to sugar, I needed to get off all the processed foods I was eating. That is when I discovered the issue with the grains.

    As with anything what works for some will not work for others. However, I do want to add a lot of the other countries are "healthier" because #1 their portion sizes are a hell of a lot smaller and #2 they tend to eat fresher foods then we do, ie less highly processed foods. As the world is starting to pick up more of our habbits with the junk food, they are starting to become fat and ill like we are. Look up the end to the Medditeranian Diet and you will see what I mean.

    As always it is about how much and what you eat.
    Volume isn't necessarily the case. There are examples of studies were people have reversed heart disease eating more food than I could imagine in one sitting, but, the focus was on vegetables and grains.

    Portion sizes are smaller...Europe, Asia, most definitely, but, they also walk. And walk a lot. Italy? I have coffee and bread & a little ham for breakfast. Pasta at lunch, Italian style potatoes at dinner with a small serving of chicken or lamb. Wine. Lost weight. Similar meals in Spain, southern France. Asia, everything centered around rice, it seemed, and despite eating as much as I could I came back 11lbs lighter.

    So its a combination of things. But, a protein-centric diet is not sustainable and the only way we (the US) can keep up with it are more & more factory farms. Neither Europe nor Asia eat near the amounts of meat, eggs, poultry or pork as the US.

  2. #22
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcneuen View Post
    Forth, paleo didn't work for you, and the macro split you advocate doesn't work for me. That doesn't mean there isn't science behind paleo or that there isn't science behind the plan you like.

    (and paleo doesn't necessarily mean low-carb, let alone keto.)
    If my macronutrient breakdown doesn't work for you then you're eating too much.

  3. #23
    bwwm is offline Senior Member
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    My friends from Europe say that they also think that it's the antibiotics, steroids and other stuff that are given to the animals in the states. They claim that they eat the same here as when they are back home, but when they are here the find they are putting on more weight. Even as they try to keep their activity levels the same.

    Don't know if it's true, just what I was told anecdotally.

  4. #24
    mcneuen is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by forth View Post
    If my macronutrient breakdown doesn't work for you then you're eating too much.
    Same can be said about your gaining on low carb high fat. And fwiw, it's totally possible to do your macro breakdown on paleo. Apples and oranges.
    -Laura McNally, RKC
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  5. #25
    Pat Flynn RKC is offline Senior Member
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    We don't need carbs. But if you are active - treat them as a supplement - time glucose containing carbs around your workouts. Other than that, high fat/low carb/moderate protein - this way we reap the benefits of carb intake - which is to help fuel anaerobic endeavors/glycolitic energy system and take advantage of stimulating an insulinemic response post workout. Otherwise why do you want to be spiking insulin all day?

    If your goal is to become insulin resistant and suffer from hyperinsulinemia, then yes, it makes perfect sense to live a high carb lifestyle.

    but if you want to be lean and healthy, it would be a considerably wiser decision to keep insulin under control except for post workout when insulin sensitivity is at it's peak and we can put that transport hormone to good use
    Pat Flynn - RKC
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  6. #26
    MI_KB'r is offline Senior Member
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    Sorry Pat, High Fat? I follow a high Carb low fat, low protein diet as promoted in the Dr. Graham's book The 80-10-10 Diet. If you want to see a couple of thousand people who also follow this plan and are all slim and fit. Check out www.30bananasaday.com. We routinely post the results of blood tests that shoot your theory out of the water (insulin resistance). In fact if you eat high amounts of fat, it will float around in your blood stream which will then of course Lead to insulin resistance due to your body not being able to process the sugars from fruit properly. We run on glucose. The sugars from fruit are converted directly to glucose.

  7. #27
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcneuen View Post
    Same can be said about your gaining on low carb high fat. And fwiw, it's totally possible to do your macro breakdown on paleo. Apples and oranges.
    There is of course a big difference. Paleo as a diet doesn't include restricting your calories. Mine does include religious counting.


    Obviously paleo builds on the same metabolic science as all other eating, I was plainly referring to how it tries to make it sound like we ate like this back in paleo days is.. very unscientific.

  8. #28
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Flynn RKC View Post
    We don't need carbs. But if you are active - treat them as a supplement - time glucose containing carbs around your workouts. Other than that, high fat/low carb/moderate protein - this way we reap the benefits of carb intake - which is to help fuel anaerobic endeavors/glycolitic energy system and take advantage of stimulating an insulinemic response post workout. Otherwise why do you want to be spiking insulin all day?

    If your goal is to become insulin resistant and suffer from hyperinsulinemia, then yes, it makes perfect sense to live a high carb lifestyle.

    but if you want to be lean and healthy, it would be a considerably wiser decision to keep insulin under control except for post workout when insulin sensitivity is at it's peak and we can put that transport hormone to good use
    I don't know man.. I live a high carb lifestyle (~100g carbs / day. Pretty much all of it from veggies and the occasional fruit since 10-15 years back) and have never had any signs of insulin resistance.

    Filling your glycogen storages over the long haul has a tendency to increase their capacity more than just force feeding them small amounts around training.

  9. #29
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_KB'r View Post
    Sorry Pat, High Fat? I follow a high Carb low fat, low protein diet as promoted in the Dr. Graham's book The 80-10-10 Diet. If you want to see a couple of thousand people who also follow this plan and are all slim and fit. Check out www.30bananasaday.com. We routinely post the results of blood tests that shoot your theory out of the water (insulin resistance). In fact if you eat high amounts of fat, it will float around in your blood stream which will then of course Lead to insulin resistance due to your body not being able to process the sugars from fruit properly. We run on glucose. The sugars from fruit are converted directly to glucose.
    While I would love to agree with you here... the idea that high fat diets somehow produces too much "gunk" in your bloodstream and this has adverse effects on insulin receptors and such is just not something that has been seen in the lab.

    and yes, the sugar from fruit is converted to glucose. ALL carbs in any form gets converted to glucose. Some of it (fructose that is) just has to take a trip around the liver first.

  10. #30
    MI_KB'r is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by forth View Post
    While I would love to agree with you here... the idea that high fat diets somehow produces too much "gunk" in your bloodstream and this has adverse effects on insulin receptors and such is just not something that has been seen in the lab.

    and yes, the sugar from fruit is converted to glucose. ALL carbs in any form gets converted to glucose. Some of it (fructose that is) just has to take a trip around the liver first.
    Sure it has, many times over there have been studies that show the detrimental effects of high fat diets. Just one article is here http://www.umm.edu/features/high_fat_meals.htm. I can't even believe that people here are even debating whether high fat is healthy or not. This is a done deal. There is too much evidence against a high fat diet. .

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