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  1. #81
    Northern Kettlebells is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mc View Post

    and has anyone's view on anything in this thread changed anyone's mind? about anything?

    mc
    I have found it a really useful thread. It's directed to me a lot of further reading, so thanks everyone for your input.

    I have just heard on the radio this morning that the government in the UK are warning against "no or low carb diets" as they can cause fatigue or upset stomachs.

    Now my first issue with that comment for me is that there is a big difference in a diet containing zero carbs and one containing 30g daily.

    Also would the issues of fatigue and upset stomachs not be something temporary while the body adapts to dietary changes?

    I know from my research that a lot of the studies on low carb diets that cite fatigue as a side effect have been short term (1-4 weeks), whereas the longer ones clearly show there is an adaption period before your body becomes efficient. After which fatigue is no longer an issue.

  2. #82
    mrMushroom is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mc View Post
    ...
    and has anyone's view on anything in this thread changed anyone's mind? about anything?

    mc
    Yes.
    First, I do not follow a specific low carb or high carb diet per se but the thread was "do we need carbohydrates?" and the answer is of course depending. You can survive without carbs, there are essential amino acids which we need from food, there are essential fatty acids we need from food. There are no essential carbohydrates (at least to my knowledge) that we need to get from food.

    Second take:
    Q. "Do we need carbohydrates?"
    A. "It depends". or "For what?"
    For losing weight low carb is effective for most people, no?
    For becoming a bodybuilder High Protein Fat has worked for ages, and so has high carb, low fat.
    On just the health issue examples go on the extremes on both ends, 0-carb Inuits, all carb/fruit with a bit of protein (hardly if ever meat) Indians (like in India). And the mix in between. Which takes me to it i"s more the lifestyle by large than a specific thing to point out". One thing common I find however is no refined sugars but whole-grains.

    And onto the red meat causes cancer:
    What i have realized/learned is that I use the exact same mindset as smokers: I do not care about the fear of cancer because thats way down the road years from now if it will ever happen.

  3. #83
    Northern Kettlebells is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Kettlebells View Post
    I have found it a really useful thread. It's directed to me a lot of further reading, so thanks everyone for your input.

    I have just heard on the radio this morning that the government in the UK are warning against "no or low carb diets" as they can cause fatigue or upset stomachs.

    Now my first issue with that comment for me is that there is a big difference in a diet containing zero carbs and one containing 30g daily.

    Also would the issues of fatigue and upset stomachs not be something temporary while the body adapts to dietary changes?

    I know from my research that a lot of the studies on low carb diets that cite fatigue as a side effect have been short term (1-4 weeks), whereas the longer ones clearly show there is an adaption period before your body becomes efficient. After which fatigue is no longer an issue.
    I'd love your thoughts on this mc. Why do you think the government support this and low-fat diets? Can it change and what needs to be done to change it?

  4. #84
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    The pick between "paleo", "frutarianism", etc. is an interesting one. Just the other day there was an article in a swedish newspaper about some company that does genetesting to find out what is the "ideal" ratio of carbsrotein:fat for you. It is great that it is coming to the general public that one diet is not ideal for everyone... like for us in scandinavia it is believed that "hunter"-style diets are not really ideal because we're more adapted to being farmers since way back when.

    To me this is just one more good reason to follow advice that Dan John has been giving; keep a log of things, change one thing for a while. evaluate if it works for you. Excellent way to learn about yourself.



    As for changing people's mind and arguing.. tbh I didn't even know we were arguing here.

  5. #85
    Northern Kettlebells is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE=forth;595162]To me this is just one more good reason to follow advice that Dan John has been giving; keep a log of things, change one thing for a while. evaluate if it works for you. QUOTE]

    I think thats the best bit of diet advice I've heard. It works for everyone and is easy to do

  6. #86
    mc
    mc is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Kettlebells View Post
    I'd love your thoughts on this mc. Why do you think the government support this and low-fat diets? Can it change and what needs to be done to change it?
    1) veggies/legumes (low caloric density) tend to get conflated with starchy carbs (high caloric density) - and the uk is really poor at getting veggies - so there's a concern no doubt somewhere there.

    2) i'd have to see the report referenced by radio

    3) we eat food not macronutrients

    4) food industry interests, as described in this interesting piece on food graphics.

    just a few thoughts

    mc
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  7. #87
    Pat Flynn RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Its always about food industry interests and lobbyists. I would never trust the government when it comes to nutrition advice...
    Pat Flynn - RKC
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  8. #88
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Flynn RKC View Post
    Its always about food industry interests and lobbyists. I would never trust the government when it comes to nutrition advice...
    There has been some very interesting debates in Sweden recently about how the meat industry is feeding a lot of money into a lot of the studies that the low carb people are basing their claims on. As you say - it is always about food industry interests first hand and people's health second hand.

  9. #89
    Northern Kettlebells is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Flynn RKC View Post
    Its always about food industry interests and lobbyists. I would never trust the government when it comes to nutrition advice...
    I agree with you there. The problem I find is when I give my clients advice on nutrition, they listen because they're paying for it. When it comes to family and friends some struggle to accept what I tell them because the authorities are advising differently.

    MC I'm unsure what reports were referenced, but I don't think I have come across a long term study that found low carb diets increases fatique
    Last edited by Northern Kettlebells; 09-03-2011 at 02:30 PM.

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