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  1. #21
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrMushroom View Post
    Did you read the book or did you do like some other RKCs and just go by word on the street?
    Did you follow the "rules" Ori has set up?
    I have read the book about 3 times. And yes, I followed the rules.

    Speaking of RKCs there is atleast one former RKC that is quoted praising the book.. but if one actually asks him about this the melody is much more "just said that to be nice. WD made me fat."

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Freides View Post
    I don't think the WD says to eat until you're full. Just going from memory here but I believe it recommends against drinking while eating and then advises to stop eating when you're more thirsty than hungry. That's a fair distance from eat until you're full.

    IMHO, if you really want to eat until you're full, eat every other day with a 24-hour fast between. If necessary, eat only once a day, every other day. Mind you, I don't recommend this approach, but it's what my gut (pun intended) tells me you'd have to do in order to eat until full every time you eat. If anyone actually tries this, let me know.
    You're right, of course, it is eat until you are more thirsty than hungry. Just it doesn't quite work. Following Ori's rules it's *easy* to down 6-7000kcal before this hits in. And then a while later one is hungry again anyway. Obviously I could spin WD if I kept counting calories.. just don't see much to be gained from it. It also makes my energy for training sessions plummet like a rock. So no.. it's great for people who fare well on it. For me, not so much.

  2. #22
    jetronin is offline Senior Member
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    Forth.
    I've never actually counted calories so I've zero idea how many I'm getting. But I'm interested in the energy thing. For me, what i train fasted, I start off a little low and then once I get moving I feel great and can train hard for long periods. I actually find I have MORE energy that when I eat frequent meals.
    *Not sure if that's the sympathetic/para-sympathetic nervous system thing (don't have the book handy at the moment)*
    I also find that eating frequent meals makes my stomach feel "heavy" and uncomfortable. I like to be lazy post-meal for exactly this reason. I realize, of course that my screwing around with my diet over the years probably has a lot to do with how I feel about diet now.
    Do you find that eating frequent meals actually gives you more energy and don't you feel sluggish after eating?
    Not trying to prove any point or provoke any particular response. Just curious.
    Cheers,
    David
    "Strength does not come from physical capacity.
    It comes from an indomitable will"-Mohandas K. Gandhi.

  3. #23
    Steve Freides is offline Senior Member
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    A few points I've made before but are worth repeating, IMHO.

    It takes a while to get used to eating less. Whether WD or not, if you decide to take in less food, expect to be hungry for 2-3 weeks, and expect it to be easy to fall off the proverbial wagon after that, too. It _is_ possible to gain weight on the WD - if that's what's happening, getting off the WD isn't the only solution - eating less is the way to go. If it's easier to eat less on another plan, so be it.

    Counting calories eliminates need to get in touch with your sense of hunger and your true need of food. For that reason, I don't recommend it. I really want to need to be in touch with how much food I need and want to be able to moderate my bodyweight by how things feels. A lofty aspiration, perhaps, but one I think is achievable by many people.
    -S-

  4. #24
    Spikeman1444 is offline Senior Member
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    I love to eat by feeling but I'm almost always hungry around late afternoon/evening. When I eat when I'm not truly hungry I feel sluggish but as KB said it may be because I've been doing the Warrior Diet for a decent amount of time. I'm liking the principles of the Primal Blueprint though. He even recommends a 4 - 8 hour eating window for weight loss. For me, my eating time habits are perfect for me but the quality of my meals are awful. After re-reading the WD and Primal Blueprint I plan on cleaning up the quality of my meals immensely. No more processed carbs or grains for this guy

  5. #25
    forth is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetronin View Post
    Forth.
    I've never actually counted calories so I've zero idea how many I'm getting. But I'm interested in the energy thing. For me, what i train fasted, I start off a little low and then once I get moving I feel great and can train hard for long periods. I actually find I have MORE energy that when I eat frequent meals.
    *Not sure if that's the sympathetic/para-sympathetic nervous system thing (don't have the book handy at the moment)*
    I also find that eating frequent meals makes my stomach feel "heavy" and uncomfortable. I like to be lazy post-meal for exactly this reason. I realize, of course that my screwing around with my diet over the years probably has a lot to do with how I feel about diet now.
    Do you find that eating frequent meals actually gives you more energy and don't you feel sluggish after eating?
    Not trying to prove any point or provoke any particular response. Just curious.
    Cheers,
    David
    On none training days I eat one meal / day. But if I don't keep track of my calories and macros this meal will end up being a good amount of overeating and I'll (not so) slowly put on another layer or five of fat.

    On training days I eat three meals. One some hour or three ahead of the training. Then during my training a shake of carbosyn (75g of it actually), fructose (15g) and whey. Then a meal afterwards, usually at the same time of day where I eat my normal daily meal.


    I have tried training fasted on several occassions and for prolonged periods of time. It's useless for me. It has nothing to do with the frequency of meals but more to do with me not being able to perform well at all if I am in a fasted state. I get the very same thing happening if I go on low carb diets. With no glycogen in my liver and/or muscles I'll just not be a happy camper in the gym. Not the first 10 minutes, not the first hour, and not the second hour. That's why I sip fructose during my training anyhoo.. to refill my liver glycogen. Makes all the difference in the world to me.



    As for Steve Freides points...

    I usually try diets out for about 4 months.

    Taking in less food? Where does WD say anything about taking in less food though? It says follow these here guidelines for eating and then eat until you're not thirsty. Don't remember anything about it being "less food." I know my life for sure isn't about "eating less". Sometimes I am cutting and then I drop eat less, sometimes I am bulking and then I eat more. Also sometimes I like to stay at balance and then I go with my BMR.

    Quite a few people easily gain weight on WD (a former SrRKC who is quoted praising it in the actual book, for example).


    As for getting in touch with your body what does it even mean? You have leptin that signals when you're full. Either you feel it or not. And yeah, you can increase your system's sensitivity to it for sure. Atleast some can, some people can't.

  6. #26
    Ace
    Ace is offline Member
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    For me it was Leangains with 2 meals/day high in protein. First meal (light) around 12-14 and big meal at evening around 18-20. Don't like the under eating thing because it keeps too much focus on food and I feel hungry all the time.

  7. #27
    Steve Freides is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by forth View Post
    As for Steve Freides points...

    I usually try diets out for about 4 months.

    Taking in less food? Where does WD say anything about taking in less food though? It says follow these here guidelines for eating and then eat until you're not thirsty. Don't remember anything about it being "less food." I know my life for sure isn't about "eating less". Sometimes I am cutting and then I drop eat less, sometimes I am bulking and then I eat more. Also sometimes I like to stay at balance and then I go with my BMR.

    Quite a few people easily gain weight on WD (a former SrRKC who is quoted praising it in the actual book, for example).
    The WD doesn't change calorie math - if you eat more than you need, you'll gain, and if you eat less, you'll lose. Many people lose when they go to the WD because their bodies just function better but, at the end of the day, whatever eating schedule you follow, if you compare three people on the same plan, be it WD or something else, the person who eats the most is the most likely to get bigger. It sounds like you've figured out how to gain, lose, and maintain - good for you, me, too, all good.

    As for getting in touch with your body what does it even mean? You have leptin that signals when you're full. Either you feel it or not. And yeah, you can increase your system's sensitivity to it for sure. Atleast some can, some people can't.
    To me, getting in touch with your body means a lot. If it's too touchy-feely a concept for you, that's fine, no ill will from me, but the idea resonates with me in a broad way, not just "Am I accurately perceiving my leptin signals?" Different strokes for different folks.
    -S-

  8. #28
    kodo kb is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeman1444 View Post
    ... My eating time habits are perfect for me but the quality of my meals are awful...
    I think this statement contains a contradiction...
    Anyway, I hope PB has been good for you. Any news to report?

    All the best,
    Josh
    "I can't imagine how it WON'T work...save you not doing it." — Dan John

    "I never went to the gym to "work out". Rather I went to LEARN. The workout was incidental." — Dr. Ed Thomas

  9. #29
    Spikeman1444 is offline Senior Member
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    Well I meant I know that eating my main meal at night works for me but I end up eating junk food. Not much news to report, I haven't implemented it yet. I'm starting today. I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out.

  10. #30
    Steve Freides is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeman1444 View Post
    Well I meant I know that eating my main meal at night works for me but I end up eating junk food. Not much news to report, I haven't implemented it yet. I'm starting today. I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out.
    When I do this, I interpret it as a message that I need a little more food during the day. I find it important to not be completely ravenous every night at dinner. The toughest thing about managing the WD is the undereating period - if you get that right, dinner is easier.

    And always remember that no plan works forever unchanged for everyone - adjust as needed as you go. I have, e.g., been having what for me is a fairly big snack most days lately, a small bowl of ricotta cheese with almonds and maple syrup, at somewhere between noon and 2 pm many days. For whatever reason, it's helping me add muscle and drop bodyfat but I'm sure there will come a time when my daytime eating gets closer to a water fast, and when that time comes, that's what I'll do.

    Hope that helps.
    -S-

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