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  1. #1
    prana is offline Senior Member
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    Default "Hardgainer" bad concept for real thing....

    First - totally agree with Garm's supp advice.

    Agree there is no such thing as a "Hardgainer"

    I read every issue of Stuart Mc Robert's great little mag. I think he really understood what he was doing and gave it a bad name. He should of called it "Not Everybody can Look Like Arnold" or something catchy like that. His sort of "ultimate" proportions for the "hardgainer" were pretty similar to the Pavel type model -maybe even a little more muscle.

    I watched "The Rundown" last night. Ernie Reyes Jr., great martial artist, ripped and rock hard and "normal" size. The Rock, simply a huge guy. Lean, I'd guess 11% at 225 or so, looks like no roids. No amount of 20 rep squats or milk make Ernie, or me, look like the Rock.

    I have known guys my strength and hieght , pretty lean, who weighed 30 lbs more. Just bigger guys. Gallons of milk will make you fat -you will gain muscle too for sure, and fat even faster. I doubt that's what anybody on here is looking for. It's all about maximizing your genetic potential. Do that and you will look amazing. Trust me, when Reyes takes his shirt off, it's an "oh shit" moment.

  2. #2
    David Whitley, RKC Guest

    Default the Rock

    He's closer to 255-260. The guy is tall, if you've even seen him up close. The WWE bills him at 6'5", 275, but , shockingly enough, wrestling tends to exaggerate things. I saw him work a few years ago, i'd say he's about 6'3" -ish. Danged Samoan genes.

    He is actually pretty close to my "goal" mental pic of myself, 'cept i am shorter.

  3. #3
    Martin3 is offline Member
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    Default Re: "Hardgainer" bad concept for real thing....

    I didnt know Ernie was in that movie. Remember watching his movies when I was a kid, he was a kid to.

  4. #4
    prana is offline Senior Member
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    Default Yeah, the first scene...

    the movie is pretty cool. He's going to fight all these NFL guys in a bar, so they put up stats like on a game. I think it says 6'4" - 225 for him, butI could be wrong - he's smaller then when he wrestled. But the point is the same, that's your optimized size, whereas Reyes look is mine.

  5. #5
    Simon Forsyth RKC is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: "Hardgainer" bad concept for real thing....

    i also have to agree tht there is no such thing as a hardgainer, i was going through my girlfriends stuff with her and i saw a picture of her dad, he was a regular looking guy with a shirt on but without it he was ripped to shreds, i asked if he ate alot of meat and she looked at me then asked her mum, her mum came in and said "he eat porridge and potato, meat too expensive for every day".

    this got me thinking about big guys that live below the poverty line and it really is just pure determination that gets these guys looking big. also one fact that i have found but then i dont read much about "Hardgainers", most hardgainers i have read about were hard gainers until they followed a simple programme, just look at the 20 rep squats programme, doing lot's of clean and jerks and eating shit loads will also produce a monster, i know this because i put my brother on a programme of C&J's and made him eat alot and rest.

    lots of milk will make you fat, look at paul andersone a strong muscle man that had fat on him strong but a little fat by todays standards.

    enough of my rambles.

    Simon

  6. #6
    elrodjr is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: "Hardgainer" bad concept for real thing....

    This all gets to be a bit circular. I agree that if most 'hardgainers' added calories of any kind, they would indeed gain. If they add calories from a good source, they would gain muscle. As you say, though, any amount of volume and food ain't gonna turn you, or me, into Ahnold. So there's definitely some kind of genetic 'gain limitation'. But I think those who call themselves hardgainers really think that they simply cannot gain mass ("I've tried every program and every supplement....."), and that's not so.

    As for whether or not people here are trying to gain weight, that gets into the whole wiry strength vs. bulking up debate. If the number of Bear routine questions on the other forum are an indication, there's definitely people who want bulk.

    Jess

  7. #7
    humilispuer is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Yeah, the first scene...

    I have the ability to carry a good deal of muscle. At one point I was around 180 pounds with sub 10% bodyfat at 5'6. It was actually a pain in the ass to both maintain and move that amount of weight around all day. Not to mention I was always getting shit from people who wanted to "start something." At this point, I am just shooting for the Reyes "ripped," type look. At 150 pounds and probably abnout 9% bodyfat I don't have all that far to go, though, I am going to give myself plenty of time to get there to avoid muscle loss. Genetic potential is one thing. For some, such as myself, personal goals/aspirations play a larger role in which way one will go.

    -Jonathon

  8. #8
    noviknikita is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: the Rock

    rocky's pretty good size. he was a hot $hit dlineman for the 'canes. he got hurt and never really reached his potential. he's done pretty well though.

  9. #9
    BigTex is offline Senior Member
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    Default Disagree completely....

    I am the anti-example to your post:

    My Mom is 5'11 and very skinny and My Dad was 6'3 & 170 lbs as a college miler. They have eaten tons of fat and starch their whole life with not a ton of damage to show for it. Dad is now 215 at 68 years old, but in my opinion should weight 300 considering the amount of gravy he eats. My oldest brother is 45 years old, 6'4 and 165 pounds. He was in the 150lb range until he hit his 40's. My other brother is 6'3 and 170 lbs. My sister is really skinny too. When I was 8 years old I bet my brother $1 million that I would be 6'5 and 230lbs. He laughed at me and immediately took that bet. I was always the tallest but weakest kid around. I started lifting weights in highschool and everyone would have said I had the least athletic genetics. As a senior in high school I was 6'6 and 175 lbs. As a senior in college I was 6'7 and 245 lbs (9% bodyfat). I was 21 at that time and had been training and eating like a Joe Weider madman for 9 years. I can honestly say that I never took a week off from training during that time unless it was planned. Never did any kind of illegal performance enhancer. At age 25, I peaked at 260lbs when doing lots of powerlifts and no more daily running up and down a basketball court. Now, at age 28 I am about 215, but that is because I do a whole lot more Yoga and a lot less squats. Being 260 is not a goal. I also don't hit the pizza buffet daily anymore. Physical excellence whether in bodybuilding, powerlifting or other sports is directly related to the quality and thoughtfullness in training, and time and commitment dedicated to that goal. Of course the Rock and Arnold have natural gifts and comparing yourself to them is not rational. But could you add 30 lbs of muscle? Absolutely. It might take 10 years if you want it to be all muscle, but it could happen. And obviously, I don't know you or your individual situation. But I would wager the reason you are not a big guy is because you don't train to be a big guy. I have seen "non-gifted" athletes succeed and fail in the weight room and on the field. The ones that succeeded did so as a direct result of their persistence and quality of training and vice versa. Genetics has a lot less to with success than people think and blaming a lack of success on genetics is a cop-out.

  10. #10
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    Default The Rock and size

    The Rock's dad works out at the Bally's near my house (1/2 mile away). Rocky Johnson is still thick and muscular. He is Black, while the Rock's mom is Samoan. The Rock has a natural grace that is amazing. Small joints and large muscle bellies. He is about 6-4. Arnold used to ALWAYS publish his height at 6-2. If you see them together, early in the film, well,.....the difference would make the Rock 7 feet tall. Most of the interviewers from Esquire and the Today show are shocked at the Rock's overall size, since he avoids muscle T's and bad clothing. He was influenced by "Classy Freddy Vlassy" the wrestler to dress like a "star". He said he purposely dropped weight for his films. I would think he weighs around 225 vs a much smoother WWE 240 or so.
    Check him out when he hangs out with his buddy Jason Taylor of the Dolphins. That will give you an idea of his size. He is doing more circuits and limiting training rest periods now. At his size, just eating clean keeps him cut.
    I remember seeing the Rock and Triple H face to face in profile. Triple H is huge, but did not train the posterior chain much compared to the Rock. Triple H suffered a massive quad tear. The Rock trains daily, largely on Hammer type machines, then goes to Dolphin camp for the strength coaches plyometrics.www.physicalstrategies.com

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