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Analysis of CC: The One-Arm Push-up

KallosThenos

New member
This is KallosThenos, an average joe in the pursuit of the Shangri-La of superior strength and conditioning. Here are my thoughts on why nobody here has yet achieved the CC-style One-Arm Push-up and why:

After much thinking, analyzation and research I have generated a hypothesis as to why nobody will achieve a CC-Style OAP following the "picture perfect" form. That is because "The pictures aren't perfect". That is because Jim Bathurst, picture model for CC cannot do CC-style OAP's himself and took photos on how he thought it would be like according to Paul Wade's instructions via e-mail or whatever. Let us first analyze the CC-OAP movement in terms of body mechanics:

A CC-Style OAP is:
-Legs together
-Torso Squared
-One hand under sternum
-Body totally erect absent of hip sag

There is one important point to note. That is your hand must be under your sternum, and should stay near there the entire repetition, it must stay under the body or else the shoulder of the non-working arm will drop. This is a very important detail, which brings me to my next point:

The picture representing the technique for step 9 is WRONG

Look closely, Jim's arm is completely outside the body. If you try this without the ball I can GUARANTEE you will twist and fall. This is because your two points of contact (being your feet and hand) is not aligned. They must form a straight line relative to your body, and if your hand ends up outside your torso this disrupts the fundamental equilibrium required to keep your torso square. It's similar to the mechanics of a one-arm chin-up. When you do an OAC, your working arm pulls down to the middle of your chest and your hand will end up being close to your sternum, it will not be by your shoulder like the hand position in a regular chin-up.

The reason is bilateral and unilateral exercises ARE DIFFERENT. This should be no surprise, however some people may forget that when you remove a limb from a bilateral exercise (push-up, pull-up, squat) and turn it into a unilateral exercise (OAP, OAC, One legged squat) the biomechanics change and your working limb must shift so that it is directly under the center of gravity, otherwise you WILL lose balance or it simply just won't happen. You cannot approach an OAP like a regular push-up, your hand must shift from just outside the torso (as in a regular push-up) to beneath the sternum or at least very close to it. This is why most people only end up achieving a legs-splayed one-arm push-up, because they don't realize this fact.

A CC-Style One-Arm Push-up is basically a one-arm close push-up. It is ridiculously hard and I believe Paul Wade's story about him benching over 300lbs from doing that. Your triceps and anterior deltoids have to be ridiculously strong to be able to pull off this feat.

The whole point of this thread is to show you the real way to achieve the CC-Style OAP. To do that, you must apply the principle I mentioned, and that is to keep your working arm under your sternum, and it should stay there (or at least very close), or AT THE VERY LEAST inside your torso near the Pectoral of the working arm. Your hand will be pointing about 45 degrees toward the side of the non-working arm. I feel this is a detail Paul Wade missed out in CC. Start by pumping away hard at Step 6, and try Step 7 with your floor arm under your sternum. Do the same for step 8, keep it under the sternum. Most importantly do it for step 9, it must simulate a real one-arm push-up but with a bit of support, so keep that working arm under your chest (not outside). This is one reason why people who master Step 9 with "picture perfect form" cannot do a real CC-Stype OAP, because some of the pictures are incorrect.

Now get your asses to work and I expect true CC-Style OAP videos from you guys several months from now.

I have another analysis of the One-Arm Handstand Push-up, however I have a busy schedule (I am in university) and I will post it when I feel I have the time. It is still undergoing extensive analysis and testing so be patient.
 
"The whole point of this thread is to show you the real way to achieve the CC-Style OAP."

You must have forgotten to load your demonstration video.
 

joerevans

New member
"The whole point of this thread is to show you the real way to achieve the CC-Style OAP."

You must have forgotten to load your demonstration video.

LOL, but really, his premise is correct, I've only been able to get closer to the CC-OAP by doing a close-hand lever push-up. I get more leverage with the hand canted as if I were doing a "diamond" push-up.
 
3

305pelusa

Guest
Naturally, the more your feet get closer, the more your hand has to be closer. I've found that with an arm perpendicular to the floor, your feet must be pretty far apart just to keep a straight alignment. If the feet were to be touching, the hand must be that much closer the the middle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xSl9zdY9_c

And thanks to the OP for this analysis. Once you got with One-arm Push-ups for about 6 months, you start realizing all of those things yourself. However, for people who are just starting to work up to a One-arm Push-up (of ANY kind), this will save them valuable time.
 

Scotsfan

New member
This is KallosThenos, an average joe in the pursuit of the Shangri-La of superior strength and conditioning. Here are my thoughts on why nobody here has yet achieved the CC-style One-Arm Push-up and why:

After much thinking, analyzation and research I have generated a hypothesis as to why nobody will achieve a CC-Style OAP following the "picture perfect" form...

...I have another analysis of the One-Arm Handstand Push-up, however I have a busy schedule (I am in university) and I will post it when I feel I have the time. It is still undergoing extensive analysis and testing so be patient.

Possibly another way of putting this? You'll need to find what works for you. Perhaps what is pictured in CC works for Wade or others with certain builds/weight distribution/leverage/etc.

Reference my post on dips...I had to find a comfortable dip rack that best "fit" my build. I also adjusted my "angle" while dipping that worked best for me. Vince Gironda suggested certain angles/elbow positions when doing dips, but, for many people they're sheer hell. Clarence Bass can't do swings w/ a KB as they bother his lower back. On & on.

Adjust & modify so things work best for your build. And if hurts, drop the movement. Its only exercise.
 

KallosThenos

New member
"The whole point of this thread is to show you the real way to achieve the CC-Style OAP."

You must have forgotten to load your demonstration video.

Will be loaded once I get it. Keep sticking to the "picture perfect" form if you want. I could care less if you achieve a CC-style OAP or not. Paul's instructions are right, the pictures may not be (it's not done by Paul himself, you can't assume it's correct).
 

KallosThenos

New member
LOL, but really, his premise is correct, I've only been able to get closer to the CC-OAP by doing a close-hand lever push-up. I get more leverage with the hand canted as if I were doing a "diamond" push-up.

You are getting closer and closer to the CC-style OAP. Make sure you work on Step 8 as well because it is necessary to teach your body the correct position to assume in the OAP.
 

KallosThenos

New member
Naturally, the more your feet get closer, the more your hand has to be closer. I've found that with an arm perpendicular to the floor, your feet must be pretty far apart just to keep a straight alignment. If the feet were to be touching, the hand must be that much closer the the middle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xSl9zdY9_c

And thanks to the OP for this analysis. Once you got with One-arm Push-ups for about 6 months, you start realizing all of those things yourself. However, for people who are just starting to work up to a One-arm Push-up (of ANY kind), this will save them valuable time.


Thanks 305Pelusa, kind words as usual.

Your statement is correct. The closer your feet are, the closer your hand must be to the center of gravity. I just want to make sure people realize why they can't do a single CC-style OAP when they can already do 2x30 Lever Push-ups and scratch their head and give up. I know I've bashed Paul Wade's methods in the past but the more I look into his methods, the more I realize he may hold some merit. (He talks about bridging being beneficial to digestion, and it's true that after starting bridging, my heartburn problem disappeared).
 

KallosThenos

New member
Possibly another way of putting this? You'll need to find what works for you. Perhaps what is pictured in CC works for Wade or others with certain builds/weight distribution/leverage/etc.

Reference my post on dips...I had to find a comfortable dip rack that best "fit" my build. I also adjusted my "angle" while dipping that worked best for me. Vince Gironda suggested certain angles/elbow positions when doing dips, but, for many people they're sheer hell. Clarence Bass can't do swings w/ a KB as they bother his lower back. On & on.

Adjust & modify so things work best for your build. And if hurts, drop the movement. Its only exercise.

But you see, the pictures are from Jim Bathurst and NOT Paul Wade. The instructions are written by Paul Wade. Follow the instructions and take the pictures with a grain of salt. It's like a student of a student trying to make an interpretation of Bruce Lee.

Following Step 9 visually by the picture will not work for anyone who is interested in achieving a CC-style OAP. The picture is flawed and thus the written instruction must be used instead.

Wade really needs to make a video of each step, he can't rely on someone that can't even do the move himself to make pictures/videos for him. It really is a joke. Now I have nothing against Jim Bathurst, he's a great athlete. However I feel cheated when he is the model for CC while not being able to do CC-Style OAP and OAHSPU himself.
 

Easey Jack

New member
Motivational thread!!

Great thread Kallos--as per usual!

Don't know if I'm de-railing here, quick point; has anyone experimented with negs on this exercise? A guy I trained with told me that "prison" pushups (Wade-style) are impossible, due to balance factors.

Buuut, I mentioned this here on another thread, and someone advised me to try doing negs on this exercise. I tried a negative, CC-style and did one fairly easily.

The argument is that if a NEGATIVE is possible on a certain technique, then a positive should also be possible. (In other words, if you can do it without overbalancing on the way down, balance shouldn't be a factor on the way up!)

I'd be interested on others feedback on this. Have you guys (who are strong/light enough) tried the negs? And does the ability to do the neg prove that the positive version is possible?

PS. Two young powerlifters in my local gym have taken to CC. I need to get a vid of one of these guys, Steve. I swear, he's just an inch or so off it. Both these men (who compete) are convinced that the movement is "easily possible" if you have the right kind of strength and positioning....
 

joerevans

New member
Two young powerlifters in my local gym have taken to CC. I need to get a vid of one of these guys, Steve. I swear, he's just an inch or so off it. Both these men (who compete) are convinced that the movement is "easily possible" if you have the right kind of strength and positioning....

And it is attitude like that, that will win the day. Piece of cake, as soon as I can figure out the right leverage... ;)
 
3

305pelusa

Guest
Wade really needs to make a video of each step, he can't rely on someone that can't even do the move himself to make pictures/videos for him.

Paul cannot do OAHPUs anymore. He explained this in an interview where he said he has been working with regular handstands instead (but I can't find them. Very sorry bout that!).

My guess would be that, with him at over 200 lbs and 50+ years, he can't even perform Prison Push-ups himself anymore (if he ever could, but that's besides the point).
 
3

305pelusa

Guest
I'd be interested on others feedback on this. Have you guys (who are strong/light enough) tried the negs? And does the ability to do the neg prove that the positive version is possible?

Just holding the top position is a big struggle for me. I can barely squeeze out a couple of reps of step 8. I'm NOWHERE near close to a slow, controlled negative. Many kudos to you, who can do so!

I will say that if a Negative is possible (it'd be nice if you posted a video of it, so we can see about it, and the groove itself), a positive could be possible.

However, it doesn't PROVE it. I'm sure someone who squats above 1000 lbs could do a negative with a lot more weight than that. But it doesn't mean that person could squat it up and down. Naturally, building up to 1000+ lbs of squat takes far longer than a Negative with a CC-style Push-up (I'd guess), so a positive, IF a controlled negative is possible, is IMO, achievable.
 

KallosThenos

New member
Great thread Kallos--as per usual!

Don't know if I'm de-railing here, quick point; has anyone experimented with negs on this exercise? A guy I trained with told me that "prison" pushups (Wade-style) are impossible, due to balance factors.

Buuut, I mentioned this here on another thread, and someone advised me to try doing negs on this exercise. I tried a negative, CC-style and did one fairly easily.

The argument is that if a NEGATIVE is possible on a certain technique, then a positive should also be possible. (In other words, if you can do it without overbalancing on the way down, balance shouldn't be a factor on the way up!)

I'd be interested on others feedback on this. Have you guys (who are strong/light enough) tried the negs? And does the ability to do the neg prove that the positive version is possible?

PS. Two young powerlifters in my local gym have taken to CC. I need to get a vid of one of these guys, Steve. I swear, he's just an inch or so off it. Both these men (who compete) are convinced that the movement is "easily possible" if you have the right kind of strength and positioning....

Thanks, I always look forward to your replies.

The points you've made are absolutely correct. If a move can be done in a eccentrically, it can also be done concentrically. I look forward to seeing the videos of the local powerlifters you mentioned, that would be awesome.

Prison push-ups are only impossible due to balance factors if the arm is placed to the side of the body like at the bottom portion of step 9. That is why I state the picture is wrong, because once the ball is removed the person in question will fall, I tested these things myself on inclines and on the wall, etc (I can't do a perfect CC-style OAP yet).
 

KallosThenos

New member
Paul cannot do OAHPUs anymore. He explained this in an interview where he said he has been working with regular handstands instead (but I can't find them. Very sorry bout that!).

My guess would be that, with him at over 200 lbs and 50+ years, he can't even perform Prison Push-ups himself anymore (if he ever could, but that's besides the point).

Well that's disappointing, it sucks what aging does to a person. I'm fairly positive he could do a prison push-up, but as you said he probably can no longer do a one-arm handstand push-up since he is way past his prime.

When I get old my workout is going to just consist of Chin-ups and Dips.
 

joerevans

New member
Well that's disappointing, it sucks what aging does to a person. I'm fairly positive he could do a prison push-up, but as you said he probably can no longer do a one-arm handstand push-up since he is way past his prime.

When I get old my workout is going to just consist of Chin-ups and Dips.

If 50 is the year I can't accomplish a heavy resistance push, I better hurry up then, only 8 more years to get it done before I can't do one.... Seriously man, age has less to do with it than state of mind.
 

postandspread

New member
If 50 is the year I can't accomplish a heavy resistance push, I better hurry up then, only 8 more years to get it done before I can't do one.... Seriously man, age has less to do with it than state of mind.

Paul writes about the 70-year Joe Hartigen doing one-thumb OAPUs and pull ups using only index fingers as hooks! Not to say that age doesn't impose limitations but probably less than we fear, provided we keep working out intelligently.

There's also the possibility that Paul might have messed up his body somewhat by massive overuse which he admits he indulged in.
 

GreenSoup

New member
Somewhere is his book or the FAQ Paul mentioned one of his prison exercises was picked up because it was the 1970's, mentioning Bruce Lee was popular and contemporary at the time. If he was in his 20s at the time, he is in his 60s or 70s now. If he was older at that time, he is that much older now. I'll forgive him for the lack of a OAHSPU :)

But what does that say about the "Mendin' Up Behind Bars" chapter from CC2? Maybe it has an age limit?
 

joerevans

New member
I think part of it is just reaching a point where you are comfortable with your level of fitness and conditioning.... Not everyone feels a need to set a new goal once one is accomplished. Additionally, CC1 represents the core of a philosophy of fitness. CC2 and hopefully a CC3 will help to fill in further the full range of capabilities, speed, power, endurance, conditioning and health. There are other goals beside raw strength. Although, being able to clean and press a 300# man who thought he was going to beat you senseless would be a solid deterrent in most cases...
 
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