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Does eating red meat cause cancer?

LifeofaFighter

New member
So recently the press have been dropping headlines about processed meat and red meat being classified as carcinogens and comparing them to smoking. The original meta analysis has been done by the World Health Organization and their affiliate. I was amazed at how much of this study seems to be reaching for causation from correlation. I recorded a podcast with friend and clinical nutritionist Mike Kuhn, and we dove into the summary of the study since the study itself and meta analysis isn't published yet.

But the biggest concern for me that Mike mentioned is that they considered pepperoni pizza as red meat for their questionnaire as part of the meta analysis.... PEPPERONI PIZZA, not to say they didn't include other actual red meat, however the fact that they group foods from Mcdonalds and pizza as red meat by itself IMO negates a heavy amount of the weight this analysis carries. I'd love to hear the forums thoughts on this...

https://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/pr/2015/pdfs/pr240_E.pdf
 

ad5ly

New member
Red meat may cause cancer. But if you don't eat in excess everyday the risk is lessened is my guess. Also, rotate the red meat everyday with fish, eggs, and pork or legumes. Also, BBQ red meat is even more of a risk. It sucks to be from the South. Meat burned on a grill eaten frequently is not a good idea. Plastic packaging is not good either. A real butcher shop wraps the meats in brown paper. Now Warrior Diet suggests the best way to eat red meat is like in a stew. Oh! Irish Stew! Yum yum. Pass the Bushmills please. Pepperoni Pizza, McDonalds etc...not a good idea if you do eat that frequently. That stuff is junk period. Eat it but know that it is far from optimal...Dennis
 

LifeofaFighter

New member
Red meat may cause cancer. But if you don't eat in excess everyday the risk is lessened is my guess. Also, rotate the red meat everyday with fish, eggs, and pork or legumes. Also, BBQ red meat is even more of a risk. It sucks to be from the South. Meat burned on a grill eaten frequently is not a good idea. Plastic packaging is not good either. A real butcher shop wraps the meats in brown paper. Now Warrior Diet suggests the best way to eat red meat is like in a stew. Oh! Irish Stew! Yum yum. Pass the Bushmills please. Pepperoni Pizza, McDonalds etc...not a good idea if you do eat that frequently. That stuff is junk period. Eat it but know that it is far from optimal...Dennis

Well said, and thanks for the reply. Even for bbqing I found some great tricks for lowering the carcinogen effect with dry rubs and soaking in marinades to help reduce cooking time, thus ultimately reducing risk.
 

Eoin Kenny

New member
Sorry for the late reply but I rarely frequent the nutrition forums.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the whole "correlation causation" thing. I mean, you can't prove meat causes cancer because it would be unethical to set up such an experiment, hence we'll NEVER be able to prove it. This is great for the meat industry, but not great for everyone else. The WHO made those statements because the correlated evidence was so positively overwhelming that they really had to. It's the same with smoking, the correlated evidence was so great that they had to classify it as a carcinogen, even though there's no causation evidence (strictly speaking).

Now, it's really processed meat which is the biggest problem, not red meat. Is it really such a surprise that processed food is bad for you? I think we all know that anything processed is likely bad for us (with some exceptions), but with meat in particular... how could anyone think that bacon, pepperoni, cold cut packaged meats etc are not damaging them?

Whilst processed meat definitely does cause cancer, there was also sufficient evidence to say that red meat likely causes cancer. It's not as bad, but still bad. BTW Pork IS red meat, sorry for the news lol, which makes sausage and bacon extra bad.

My last gripe is the whole "moderation" thing also... it's such a cop-out! Why reduce your risk when you can EASILY eliminate it? It's like me being out for a lovely mountain walk to get in some fresh air and remembering the whole moderation argument for meat, so I take out a cigarette and light up even though I don't smoke.

I think it's long overdue, hopefully it'll get people to cut down on meat consumption, although I highly doubt it will...
 

NSmetzer

New member
It's not the meat itself that is causing the cancer. Cancer itself is characterized by accelerated and out of control growth. What sort of things do we add to animals these days that cause accelerated growth? They've basically taken what we add to red meat that causes cancer and generalized it into all red meat causes cancer to cause yet another public uproar.

We could also consider, that before we all decided to shack up in one spot and grow our food instead of search for it, the red meat we ate was nothing like what we have today. And whomever got it correct about the coincidental relationship between red meat and cancer. We could argue that water causes cancer since everyone who has cancer probably drinks or bathes in water. Ignore the scare tactics, use your common sense and buy grass fed...
 
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Eoin Kenny

New member
I like to use my common sense also, it tells me that processed anything is obviously bad. However everything is processed a little, so where to draw the line?

Man evolved to eat pretty much everything, but "everything in moderation" will only get you so far. Does anyone else like to model their diet on what they think man evolved eating? I do, I think it was probably very little meat and a whole lot of plants for most of them.
 

ad5ly

New member
Yes I think most food that is processed and packaged is borderline good. It will serve as food in that it provides many essential nutrients - but you also get all the unwanted by products contained in processed foods. I remember years ago a tv commercial about "Roman Meal Bread". It portrayed Roman soliders on the march to fight the Barbarians. The thing is the bread we eat today is no where near what the Romans ate. Or what Jesus ate at the Last Supper. Wonder Bread was not on the dining table at the Last Supper....Also, what really is meant by "organic"? What is the standard measure that dictates that this vegetable on this farm is organic, but just over the fence on the next farm these vegetables are not? Would there not be any cross contamination. After all we who live on the same planet are essentially living in the same cesspool. And how can there be organic fish? They all live in the same ocean/toilet. This organic craziness is making some people rich...Dennis
 

LifeofaFighter

New member
Yeah everyone seems to make the same common strong point that at the end of the day we know processed meats are bad and red meats are awesome. But seriously I find that balance is the key and making sure red meat is as organic and natural as possible increasing the benefits and decreases the negative impact it could potentially have.
 

Eoin Kenny

New member
Yeah everyone seems to make the same common strong point that at the end of the day we know processed meats are bad and red meats are awesome. But seriously I find that balance is the key and making sure red meat is as organic and natural as possible increasing the benefits and decreases the negative impact it could potentially have.
How do we know red meat is awesome? Serious question BTW...
 

Eoin Kenny

New member
I think someone deleted a comment here? I got an email for a reply with some studies. The only viable one is by Vaclav Smil, I need to look into that more, thank you!
 

ad5ly

New member
Number cause of death is DEATH. There is no escape. We are all on death row. heheheheh!!!!..Red meat can cause cancer. Or heart disease. The 2 leading causes of death in America is cancer and heart disease. The trick is that you want to live to the ripe old age of 95 - AND get away with 2 packs of cigeretts a day, a weekly fifth of whiskie, and all the steak and fries you can eat when ever you want. At 95, you want 23-25 year old babes lined up at your door - in which they pay you for stud service!!...hehehe!!...But thats probably not going to happen. Americans are living longer - inspite of their bad eating and drinking habits.. But that is because of advances in medicine - and many are still miserable, just older and meaner cantankerous old farts. I tell you if I had been born a decade earlier, I would be dead right now. Ten years ago I had heart surgery and began taking heart meds. Had 90% blockage in my artery. Caught it in time. I probably would have died if I had not began treatment and began exercising and eliminating all fast food. In my family I have managed to live the most years. Parents and brothers all died in their 40s and 50s. I honestly feel healthy as a horse. I actually think I can make it to 75. But sorry ladies my stud services are no longer offered. Some things just don't happen anymore..heheh!!,,,Dennis
 

gimx

New member
Don't eat red meat, it gives you cancer.
Don't eat eggs, they give you cholesterol.
Don't eat fruits, they are bad with their fructose.
Don't drink milk, they have a lot of antibiotics and hormones.
Don't eat grains because you become fatty.
Don't eat too much vegetables, they can irritate the gut.

Kill yourself, it's better... Because all foods are bad if we listen all "gurus" and "experts"... :rolleyes:
 
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gimx

New member
If I listen my doctor, I must eat 3 eggs per week. I eat 3 eggs at every breakfast and my cholesterol is fine. Eat well without junk food but the most important... Be honest with you, listen your body and you know what is good for you :)
 

William011

New member
It's not the meat itself that is causing the cancer. Cancer itself is characterized by accelerated and out of control growth. What sort of things do we add to animals these days that cause accelerated growth? They've basically taken what we add to red meat that causes cancer and generalized it into all red meat causes cancer to cause yet another public uproar.

We could also consider, that before we all decided to shack up in one spot and grow our food instead of search for it, the red meat we ate was nothing like what we have today. And whomever got it correct about the coincidental relationship between red meat and cancer.
 

Wolfeye

Banned
Red meat needs to not be screwed-around-with (like anything) & I'd imagine it'd be a bad idea to overdo it, especially without counterbalances to it (people forget that it's not like cutting at a piece of wood). I'd think you'd probably do well to throw in a lot of things that work against cancerous situation & then the piece of meat that you have as an entree would be less of an issue (keep in mind that it might not be, since humans are well-designed for persistence hunting & extraordinarily healthy people at meat all the time).

I've found it very odd that people get all worried about cancer & yet have such a positive view of things that like cell phones & cars (radiation of sorts & exhaust). It truly seems like a lot of people would sooner lose a kidney or a lung than a car or a phone. Never seen a mechanic get that attached to a screwdriver or a wrench.
 

Eoin Kenny

New member
Have any of you read "How Not To Die" by Dr. Michael Greger?

That's a great book, he gives the low down on what a healthy diet should be nowadays based on a lot of good research. He does advocate a plant based diet but openly says "it doesn't have to be all or nothing".

So personally I live by his daily dozen foods to eat which include serving of legumes, whole grains, berries, leafy greens, curcif veg, nuts, flax, turmeric, fruit, other veg, green tea, exercise etc.. but because I still think some meat is healthy I throw in lean cuts to help with recovery and B vitamins etc. Eating this way has lead to me finally having perfect blood tests after 2 years of crash diets, and, wouldn't you know... it's pretty much the food pyramid :)
 

Eoin Kenny

New member
Have any of you read "How Not To Die" by Dr. Michael Greger?

That's a great book, he gives the low down on what a healthy diet should be nowadays based on a lot of good research. He does advocate a plant based diet but openly says "it doesn't have to be all or nothing".

So personally I live by his daily dozen foods to eat which include serving of legumes, whole grains, berries, leafy greens, curcif veg, nuts, flax, turmeric, fruit, other veg, green tea, exercise etc.. but because I still think some meat is healthy I throw in lean cuts to help with recovery and B vitamins etc. Eating this way has lead to me finally having perfect blood tests with super good cholesterol after 2 years of crash diets, and, wouldn't you know... it's pretty much the food pyramid :)
 
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