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Fat Loss efforts

Max Supply

New member
Thank you for your support folks.

As far as diet goes, I never ate poorly, I just ate TOO MUCH of whatever. Don't drink soda etc.. Pasta was my greatest problem as my wife is Sicilian/Brazilian and LOVES to cook. Now that the older two have moved out, we can focus on much smaller meals that are healthier and less carb based.

I'm eating a decent breakfast at 0630 hours, snack at 1000 (granola bar, banana etc.) lunch at 1300 another snack around 1630 ----> KB Burn plus warm-up and down <-----
then a small dinner. And LOTS of H2O. Now that my traveling is finished for a while I can focus once again.

Oh and I do cheat. Coffee light and sweet in the mornings & One or two beers on the weekend. But that's really about it.
 

Jethro

New member
The body is always adapting

Dietary changes are best integrated slowly because the body will react before it adapts.

I used to think the same thing regarding those missing food groups. If it isn't an animal, made by an animal, or grow from our land (including water), it was made by man. You have to ask yourself how healthy can those missing food groups be? I firmly believe this is why we are so unhealthy and disease ridden as a nation.
 
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rifstonian

Guest
Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker finally posting.

Me: 32 yr old, 5'4 female, 163lbs, 30ish %bf
The bells: 20lb gofit, 2 x 12kg DD bells, 1 x 16kg DD bell

The programs: KB Burn by Geoff Neupert or Tracy Reifkind's swing progressions.

I have the former, about to purchase the latter. Rambles to follow, pertinent section is in bold. Any advice would be appreciated.

Tracy inspired me to kettle bells early on with her amazing story but I am the perpetual beginner, I rarely finish a program usually because I end up screwing up the diet. I've got a fair amount of martial arts training and gym work under my belt but nothing I can call long term experience or success. Long story short I have finally gotten my diet nailed and am getting back into weight training. The KB being my weapon of choice.

I have just completed week 1 on KB Burn and am enjoying it so far, something keeps me looking at Tracy's swing progressions though.

My goals are simple, get a figure that I wouldn't be ashamed to be seen in a bikini in, right now I just want to strip the fat off. I don't care about bench press numbers or the circumference of my biceps (just my waist and hips). I am a reasonably strong (that is compared to my fellow co-workers) female, I can carry a 30lb box of cat litter in one hand with a 25lb bag of food in the other out to my car without thinking twice. I have my functional strength which is all I am truly interested in right now. I am reserving the right to change my mind when I see what's under the flab :)

I am the fat kid that became a fat adult, I had periods of not quite so fat while I was working out in college but I was eating crap at the time so never really lost all of it.

I know both programs will work given consistent application. I guess I am trying to figure out without potentially offending or wanting to second guess in a way the original authors if the swings are enough?

I like the variety in KB Burn, doing TGU's and presses feels like things I 'should' be doing for overall healthy body strength and fitness, I am attracted to the simplicity and the all out caloric burn in the swing progressions. In the end I just want the fat gone and to maintain what I have strength wise so that I can make better decisions later on where I want my training to take me.


I don't know if it matters but I also like intermittent fasting. My schedule means I train straight after work around 5.30-6pm. My current food habits are not dissimilar to Tracy's in the article, coffee with cream for breakfast, a piece of fruit and some yogurt for lunch, generally more coffee in the afternoon :)

I don't calorie count, just portion control with an eyeball to decent amount of protein/veggies and not overboard on the grains. I will occasionally tot up a few day's worth of macros and calories to make sure I am on track but I am not doing that daily until I get closer to goals and actually need to. I've lost close to 40lbs with this method so far so it's working for me. I figure another 40lbs or so is still needed but that is open to interpretation via what I see in the mirror which is more important.

Morkai

No offense to Geoff, his program or his gender but he's never been overweight and never been a woman.I can't believe you wouldn't latch onto Tracy's program like white on rice as she has been exactly where you were , and ended up, it sounds like, exactly where you want to be.

Her program works so well, including her dietary schemes(especially for those that like large volumes of food) that I can't imagine not spending A LOT of time learning and following her programs.

But, the key to getting anything from any program is doing it, sticking to it, and of course, progressively making things tougher as you adapt.

If you've read her blog, and read her progress( and setbacks) over the last four years you will know this is never a short trip but a true journey and lifestyle change.

The bottom line as far as I'm concerned; NOTHING will burn more calories and build more muscle similtaneously than Kettlebell ballistics, and nothing makes them more palatable than Tracy's Progressive methods.

Don't be afraid to want to look good as well as be healthy and move well. It's a great motivator to finally get the body you've always wanted.
 
R

rifstonian

Guest
Well, if your BMI is over 40, it is very unlikely that exercise and dieting will bring in sustained fat loss. It doesn't work in this weight group. Only one thing works, and that is bariatric surgery. Yes, I know someone who was so-and-so lost a million pounds of fat with the Program Minimum, but that person is way out of the curve. Metabolic slow down is one of the many confounding factors why the linear equation of calorie control doesn't work here.


Sorry RamboDoc

Tracy is in direct contradiction to that. She was over 250 lbs when she started and lost 50 pounds just from walking and changing her diet. the kb swing dropped the rest of the weight along with totally transforming her bodies shape and muscularity.

she has clients that are seeing the exact same effects with her methods.Nothing will speed up the metabolic rate like high volume kb ballistics.you just cant; get or sustain a higher heart rate than you can with these methods.

now, people have to DO the work, no gettng around that . and that is the hard part. but seeing someone who has done what they want to do, seeing that it is indeed POSSIBLE goes a long way.
 

SThom27

New member
Well, if your BMI is over 40, it is very unlikely that exercise and dieting will bring in sustained fat loss. It doesn't work in this weight group. Only one thing works, and that is bariatric surgery. Yes, I know someone who was so-and-so lost a million pounds of fat with the Program Minimum, but that person is way out of the curve. Metabolic slow down is one of the many confounding factors why the linear equation of calorie control doesn't work here.

I agree with Rif here. People were losing weight with diet and/or exercise long before bariatric surgery came along. Additionally, I've known 3 people personally who've had this type of surgery and all 3 of them had put the weight back on within 5 years. It's mostly because they made no true lifestyle changes.

Point being, don't start exercising and dieting. Change your lifestyle. It's not a short sprint to a finish line. It's the same drive to work, day in and day out, for the rest of your life. Anything is possible over a long enough timeline.
 

Rambodoc

New member
Sorry RamboDoc

Tracy is in direct contradiction to that. She was over 250 lbs when she started and lost 50 pounds just from walking and changing her diet. the kb swing dropped the rest of the weight along with totally transforming her bodies shape and muscularity.

she has clients that are seeing the exact same effects with her methods.Nothing will speed up the metabolic rate like high volume kb ballistics.you just cant; get or sustain a higher heart rate than you can with these methods.

now, people have to DO the work, no gettng around that . and that is the hard part. but seeing someone who has done what they want to do, seeing that it is indeed POSSIBLE goes a long way.

Rif:
I know that Tracy has done what is truly remarkable. I am sure over the years, you guys have together helped several people effect radical change in body compositions.
That said and done, you guys are the outliers. You are the 1-5% of people who are a statistical minority. The vast majority of the severely obese do not show sustained weight loss. One of their problems could be that they don't have you as coaches/trainers, but that is their reality, and the reality of those of us who deal with their lives (and deaths) on a daily basis. I am really talking about the big picture here, and not questioning the training at all.Hope this makes more sense.
Edit: This post of mine has been echoed negatively in other places. The reason for that is I was referring to the vast majority (not ALL) of people. I am not talking of anecdotal cases, but large studies carried out over years in major centers over large numbers of patients.
 
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Rambodoc

New member
I agree with Rif here. People were losing weight with diet and/or exercise long before bariatric surgery came along. Additionally, I've known 3 people personally who've had this type of surgery and all 3 of them had put the weight back on within 5 years. It's mostly because they made no true lifestyle changes.

Point being, don't start exercising and dieting. Change your lifestyle. It's not a short sprint to a finish line. It's the same drive to work, day in and day out, for the rest of your life. Anything is possible over a long enough timeline.

There wasn't an epidemic of morbid obesity before, but that is not important....
I totally agree with you. Bariatric surgery is a tool, a vehicle that helps you to lose weight and stay healthy when you change your lifestyle. This is a big thing for those people who are otherwise incapable of getting results with conventional means.
"Someone put back weight after bariatric surgery" is equivalent to "Someone deadlifted/squatted and blew his back out". Hope you understand where I am coming from.
 

EricJMoss

New member
Rif:
I know that Tracy has done what is truly remarkable. I am sure over the years, you guys have together helped several people effect radical change in body compositions.
That said and done, you guys are the outliers. You are the 1-5% of people who are a statistical minority. The vast majority of the severely obese do not show sustained weight loss. One of their problems could be that they don't have you as coaches/trainers, but that is their reality, and the reality of those of us who deal with their lives (and deaths) on a daily basis. I am really talking about the big picture here, and not questioning the training at all.Hope this makes more sense.
Edit: This post of mine has been echoed negatively in other places. The reason for that is I was referring to the vast majority (not ALL) of people. I am not talking of anecdotal cases, but large studies carried out over years in major centers over large numbers of patients.
Wouldn't you think that the vast majority of people simply don't have it in their personalities to make the change? It doesn't always have to do with genetics but the fact that they can pick something that works and stick to it before singing the "i tried everything and it didn't work" song on the way to getting their stomach stapled.

the ones that are that morbidly obese themselves are the statistical outliers
 

Kai Johnson

New member
Wouldn't you think that the vast majority of people simply don't have it in their personalities to make the change? It doesn't always have to do with genetics but the fact that they can pick something that works and stick to it before singing the "i tried everything and it didn't work" song on the way to getting their stomach stapled.

the ones that are that morbidly obese themselves are the statistical outliers

Exactly.

Pretending that surgery is a better option for fat loss because people can't control themselves just doesn't compute for me. Sure, they may keep fat off more "statistically" just because their bodies have been modified to be able to store less food in the stomach thus limiting caloric intake, but it sure doesn't sound like an option that should be presented as a good option.
 

mc

New member
Well, if your BMI is over 40, it is very unlikely that exercise and dieting will bring in sustained fat loss. It doesn't work in this weight group. Only one thing works, and that is bariatric surgery. Yes, I know someone who was so-and-so lost a million pounds of fat with the Program Minimum, but that person is way out of the curve. Metabolic slow down is one of the many confounding factors why the linear equation of calorie control doesn't work here.

That is just an amazing assertion.
And not really held up as a universal.

Agreed that if *all* one addresses is diet then failure is likely. But that doesn't mean that another single factor solution - a stomach clamp - works either.

I wrote about this just last week
begin to dig: Kill the Big Pill: Body Comp Change is Complex, not Single Factor
and there are studies there about the not always and not so much long term value of bariatric surgery

A key fact is that weight loss takes time and is overloaded with multiple factors that can make continuing a program challenging. And the more one has to lose the longer and more enduring the support and other associated factors to ensure success and sustained change need to be.

One of the longer running studies on obese women that showed consistent and healthy weight lose combined - wait for it -

  • diet
  • exercise of around 5hrs a week
  • and MENTOR support. Folks that maintained telephone support on their program had greater loss and greater maintenance of their progress.
Tracy, as Rif points out, is a fabulous example of what can happen when all those cylinders plus ongoing social support and inner change state/motivation to change and work are firing.

Perhaps the reason for so much recidivism in the population you see, Ramdoc, is that they are not in a long term multifactor program that provides strategies to succeed, ongoing supervision etc etc.

just a thought.

Morkai, if you're there, i'd be asking what your diet is - and what your approach to nutrition is within this. There's a bunch of ways to help support your success. Loads of strategies. shout if your interested/curious, cuz kb's are great - when combined with progressive nutrition strategies. one step at a time.

mc
 

mc

New member
Ah 5.4
i see that now.
you've only done week one of kb burn. great
stick with it.

i've lost the thread of what you're questioning.

if you weigh 164 today and have a sustainable reasonable method for weight loss including good nutrition and exercise, all other things being equal and say you want to get to 124, sustainably, that's about 46 weeks of focused effort.

If you're losing weight you're losing weight.
"2.5 months ago I was 180 pounds." 17lbs in 12 weeks good for you.

"My main concern is that if I concentrate on pure super speedy fatloss through swings only am I going to be kicking myself later for not concentrating on 'healthy body' moves like TGU's and Squats etc. "

Um, there's no such thing as "super speedy fatloss through swings"

Right now, you're doing about a pound to a pound and a half a week. That's sane.

Your weight loss will vary over the coming months.
Some cues to watch for:
fatigue, lack of sleep, lack of strength.
lack of progress on other markers like measurements of girth.

check those, and check in to retune as needed to keep progress going.

as rif says, swing.

best
mc
 

CaptShady

New member
I started with a diet eliminating sugar, and kettlebells at the same time, May 2009. I fit the category of "morbidly obese". My BMI was over 50, and is currently in the low 40's. I've lost 80lbs so far (which isn't too impressive to some - 80lbs in 15 months). It's not an easy journey.

I believe that either diet/exercise or bariatric surgery will work, when the psychological reasoning for getting into this predicament in the first place, is addressed. It's not a matter of will power alone.

There are a lot of finger pointing that can go on: fad diets, fad exercise, marketing, etc. But until the underlying reason is addressed, we're all doomed to failure. No one WANTS to be morbidly obese. There are several that cry while (over)eating, because they don't want to, but some how have lost control over their own selves. If you've never been in that position, let me tell ya, it's NOT fun. Food addiction, binge eating disorders, are just as real as anorexia. The difference is (usually, not too bad among the party) the attitude those not dealing with it, approach it. The anorexic is approached with love and caring. People line up to help those suffering through it. The over-eater is approached with contempt, and the "answer" or "cure" (though not medically or psychologically sound) is "known" by all to be so extremely simple. Even those in the medical field.
 
What's the cure?

Interesting thread. I hope it's been of help to the original poster.

I believe that either diet/exercise or bariatric surgery will work, when the psychological reasoning for getting into this predicament in the first place, is addressed. It's not a matter of will power alone...the "answer" or "cure" (though not medically or psychologically sound) is "known" by all to be so extremely simple. Even those in the medical field.

Maybe I missed it as I don't know what you're talking about, but what's the answer?

My question is not sarcastic. I'd like to know your take on this, as you've earned the stripes. I'm not saying you're being unclear; I am saying I don't understand you if you've given your point of view about what the "known" and "extremely simple" cure is. Or, maybe you were being sarcastic. Certainly there doesn't appear to be agreement on this thread about a known and/or simple answer.

Thanks,

Jim
 

Medic789

New member
I have been reading this thread with definite interest as I am currently working hard on my weight loss (40 lbs fat lost, 10 lbs lean gained, 30 lbs left to lose). What I am finding is a very common thread and a realization I have come to recently: It all works. Kettlebells work, low car diets work, low fat diet works, warrior diet works, ESE works, surgery works, as does any other idea of the week.

I think the key is in finding a diet and exercise plan that works for YOU. If there was one solution, I am sure we would all do it. I happen to be a low carb guy, but that is just because it works for me.

The surgery debate is very interesting but the researcher in me says you need to look at the source of the debate. I have enjoyed RamboDoc's posts, but as his signature says, he makes his living doing bariatric surgeries, so I'm not surprised that he promotes them. They do work, for some, just as every other weight loss plan does.

I have to think about something Zig Ziglar (international motivational speaker on goals/motivation/sales) says about weight loss and it is very simple: "If you didn't put the weight on taking pills, you are not going to take it off with pills." I suppose the same goes for surgery. Then again he goes on to say that most people do not have a thyroid problem, they have a hagen daaz problem.

Until you find out what the proverbial monkey on your back is, you won't be able to make a sustainable change in your body's set point. I had a moment of clarity when I realized what my monkey was. It was two parts; my family are social eaters and by being on a 'diet' it can be easy to be excluded (sometimes self enforced) from the family events. The second one was even more interesting in that my mental model of a 'man' was a 'big man'. I had successfully dieted lower than I am now, but would yo-yo back. I realized that when I lost my image as a 'big man' I felt like less of a man, and therefore sabotaged myself. Once I realized that (which took years) I found kettlebells and was able to objectively look at myself and my progress. Now, I am working towards being a 'big man', but not in fat, but in strength.

Interestingly enough, the research backs up the incidental process I followed as the core of long term fat loss success. Changing the mental image of yourself is key to keeping it off and lifetime changes. It is not a conscious thing, but your body tries to live up to whatever image you give it. It is the same as if you tell a kid he is dumb, he will live down to your expectations. If you tell yourself you are a fat man and it is part of your image, you will say that way. You will even justify it and not see all the impacts it has on your life. The problem with surgery or any miracle cure for weight loss is that it does not change the mental image or the body's set point, and your body will find a way to turn around the process.

In full disclosure, I am working towards becoming an HKC (October 9, 2010), have a goal of doing the RKC in 2011, and co-own Kettlebell Daily, so I am biased towards Kettlebells. My research background and PhD are in Adult Learning and much of the mental model work comes from there. As always, your mileage may vary, but long term changes require a long term mental model or mental image change. The research would also say that if you improve your self-efficacy (belief in yourself that you can do it) you are more likely to actually accomplish it. References for any of the above are available through a quick google scholar search or I can provide them.

Yours in Service,

Jason
 

CaptShady

New member
Interesting thread. I hope it's been of help to the original poster.



Maybe I missed it as I don't know what you're talking about, but what's the answer?

My question is not sarcastic. I'd like to know your take on this, as you've earned the stripes. I'm not saying you're being unclear; I am saying I don't understand you if you've given your point of view about what the "known" and "extremely simple" cure is. Or, maybe you were being sarcastic. Certainly there doesn't appear to be agreement on this thread about a known and/or simple answer.

Thanks,

Jim

I was being sarcastic. To anyone that's never been there before, they LOVE to dish out the contempt, and the advice of "doing push aways" or "get off the see-food diet" and so on. To them, it's "that simple". I've even experienced it, from a twice rehabbed drug addict.
 

Morkai

New member
Wow... Okay.

Morkai

No offense to Geoff, his program or his gender but he's never been overweight and never been a woman.I can't believe you wouldn't latch onto Tracy's program like white on rice as she has been exactly where you were , and ended up, it sounds like, exactly where you want to be.

Simple really:
1) I bought KB burn when it first came out which was before Tracy's DVD was released. (this is not my first attempt at it)
2) I'd forgotten Tracy's original story as I had read it when it was first posted those 4 or so years ago. I remembered and found it a couple weeks ago right around when I started KB Burn (again)
3) the usual reason, money, already spent this months fun budget. I will be buying the DVD's though as soon as the next pay check comes in.

Her program works so well, including her dietary schemes(especially for those that like large volumes of food) that I can't imagine not spending A LOT of time learning and following her programs.

But, the key to getting anything from any program is doing it, sticking to it, and of course, progressively making things tougher as you adapt.

I definitely intend to get to know her methods better.

If you've read her blog, and read her progress( and setbacks) over the last four years you will know this is never a short trip but a true journey and lifestyle change.

The bottom line as far as I'm concerned; NOTHING will burn more calories and build more muscle similtaneously than Kettlebell ballistics, and nothing makes them more palatable than Tracy's Progressive methods.

I used to, I think I lost her when she switched blogs. Reading her blog recently, catching up with her progress, seeing the DVD is what inspired this whole thread.

Don't be afraid to want to look good as well as be healthy and move well. It's a great motivator to finally get the body you've always wanted.

I am not afraid, at this point I am bound and determined to get an awesome body. I'm tired of looking frumpy. :cool:

Ah 5.4
i see that now.
you've only done week one of kb burn. great
stick with it.

i've lost the thread of what you're questioning.

5.4? I've just finished week 3.
Lol, yeah, I lost the thread of what I was asking in my beginning post as well.

My post was however never about my diet, my diet is working for me and I am happy with it. I eat less than I burn, thus I lose weight. It's as simple as that.

Um, there's no such thing as "super speedy fatloss through swings"

Okay lets try and explain this.

Having done 3 weeks of KB burn now I may have initially underestimated the first parts but I was looking at it thus:

Tracy's programs are 20-40 minutes of swinging. That's a lot. That's a hell lot of calories being burnt.

KB Burn is a 3 part 40 minute workout, the first two parts I did not think were quite so calorie burning intensive as if I had spent an additional 30 minutes swinging. Only the last 10 minutes of the workout is swings.

Note I am basing all fat loss progress on caloric burn. That is what prompted the 'super speedy fat loss' comment. I was guestimating Tracy's methods to be a higher caloric burn per workout than Geoff's. With no change in diet that would make fat loss on Tracy's program faster because the caloric deficit would be bigger.

But Geoff's was doing other exercises that I was wondering if might not be better for joint and general physical health (other than fat loss) in the long term if one is working at a desk all day (one point I neglected to mention in my first post). This is the only part of Tracy's story I can't emulate. I sit behind a desk all day, she does yoga and teaches kettlebell classes, I always got the impression that she was an incredibly active lady.

That was the basis for my initial post. Can the swings alone keep my body moving healthily or should I be incorporating other movements given my lack of activity outside of my workouts? Honestly that was the basis to my entire post. I lost that in my rambles.

I live in swampsville, I have neither RKC's, z-health nor art practitioners nor anyone else enlightened in such things any closer than 3 hours away. Up until just recently I didn't have a car I even trusted to make such a trip and now I am in the process of moving back to the UK so money is too tight for that kind of expenditure.
 
R

rifstonian

Guest
Rif:
I know that Tracy has done what is truly remarkable. I am sure over the years, you guys have together helped several people effect radical change in body compositions.
That said and done, you guys are the outliers. You are the 1-5% of people who are a statistical minority. The vast majority of the severely obese do not show sustained weight loss. One of their problems could be that they don't have you as coaches/trainers, but that is their reality, and the reality of those of us who deal with their lives (and deaths) on a daily basis. I am really talking about the big picture here, and not questioning the training at all.Hope this makes more sense.
Edit: This post of mine has been echoed negatively in other places. The reason for that is I was referring to the vast majority (not ALL) of people. I am not talking of anecdotal cases, but large studies carried out over years in major centers over large numbers of patients.

Doc

I agree that we are the outliers.not because we know what to do but because we are actually willing to do it.Tracy had been chubby to fat her whole life. and unathletic as well.
She obtained what she did not because she was some elite but because she made up her mind to do what was necessary to achieve what she decided she wanted.

the reason the severely obese don't change body composition is not because they change the eating patterms that were making them fat and it doesn't work,it's because they will not change what they are doing that is making them fat.

That is one of the first thing Tracy asks her overweight clients( she's gets a lot of lee way here from people because she was fat, she has real credibility with this population) is what is making them fat. Doesn't matter what it is, she wants the real answer.
And sometimes she gets it.

The point is self awareness and , can I say it? self actualization, is part of this process and if people won't even look at what they are doing to themselves, again, can I say it? take responsibility for what has got them in this condition, then nothing will happen.

It may say that almost the entire population that is obese or headed that way is weak willed or just too enamored of the leisure lifestyle that has become the American Dream.

Or one could say they are victims of a corporate conspiracy to hook them on simple sugars, high fructose corn syrups and overly caloric portions at the innumerable place to eat out that populate our cities so much that they can't do other wise. pod people unite.

Or they could actually learn how to cook and prepare their own foods and take responsiblity for feeding themselves. It is a choice. their choice. everyone's choice.

We are the outliers and are leading the way, walking the talk, leading from the front, just as we should be as the training professionals we are. And the rest of the 95% of the population should be looking at what we are doing and EMULATE IT.

Reverse engineering indeed. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think,

Bariatic surgery is a bandaid that rarely works long term and doesn't address the real issues not anything about people's health.

People like Tracy that have actually figured out how to solve this puzzle, long term should be sought after for advice not relegated to a statistically anomaly.

We will have to agree to disagree here.
 
R

rifstonian

Guest
morkai

I will address the other parts of your post later.
I will get to this point first

"Can the swings alone keep my body moving healthily or should I be incorporating other movements given my lack of activity outside of my workouts? Honestly that was the basis to my entire post. I lost that in my rambles. "


My focus on training program design is to do what is most important first; first in the training week, first in the workout and first in your mind.The early you do it the more energy you have for it.

if weight loss and body comp changes are your main priority do the thing that is going to accomplish this earliest.

When i was a powerlifter my squat and deadlift were much weaker than my bench, so I spend the majority of my training and mental energy focused on those lifts and addressing the weak points of them.

the swing , when trained TracyStyle, is going to give you the biggest bang for your buck on all levels for losing weight and changing your shape.: calories burned, muscle built, body shape changes. in the shortest time.

If you have muscular skeletal imbalances these must be addressed as well. If you have mobility issues they do also. You can do all of these things similtaneously but give the most energy to the thing you are focused most on.

as you achieve the body comp you are happy with be sure to include the primal movement patterns in various ways

pushing( pressing of all kinds)
pulling ( swings deadlifts snatches etc)
squatting
lunging
bending( again more swings snatches cleans deads and variations)
twisting
gait( walking is tops here for most people)

more than that? you choose. start at the beginning and make haste slowly. the key is consistency. it beats intensity all the time.
 

Rambodoc

New member
I urge those of you who are serious in understanding the evidence in obesity management to read this article.
Even “effective” dietary and exercise treatments for adult obesity produced modest weight loss (about 3-5 kg) compared with no treatment or usual care.2,3,7 Weight loss drugs such as sibutramine and orlistat, used in conjunction with diet or exercise programmes, also produced 3-5 kg of weight loss, but the effects often did not last after the drug was stopped.3,8-10 Although the weight loss of 3-5 kg was statistically significant and had some health benefits,11 its clinical significance was not shown—that is, it may not have been enough to improve the health or quality of life of patients. In most studies with long term follow-up, the weight lost initially gradually came back.
As far as bariatric surgery is concerned, I think it would be ridiculous to try and prove it does not work, when there is an avalanche of papers (and still coming) on its ability not only to provide long term weight loss, but also to provide cure/remission of diseases like diabetes, high blood pressure and snoring. Yes, it is true that you need to change lifestyle after surgery in order to get really good long term results, and in some cases where the surgeon's approach to treatment is only to operate and not look back later, there is weight regain. Also, there are lousy procedures, and there are excellent ones.
Lots of variables to skew the picture. But the larger picture remains solid, evidence-wise.
As far as promotion/bias is concerned, I can only say that I offer surgery only when I know
the statistical probability of sustained weight loss is minimum with lifestyle change alone.

In talking about sustained and significant weight loss in severely obese patients, the evidence shows that only bariatric surgery works significantly in most people, while our belief may be that exercise and diet can do that. In given individuals you handle, you may be successful, but the larger reality is different.
 
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