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Fat Loss with Alwyn Cosgrove

I want to add a killer fat loss program to go with the ETK Program Minimum. I've already added hill sprints, but I want to add a little more science. I've seen several people mention Cosgrove's stuff, and I've also noticed Craig Ballantyne's Turbulence Training. Does anyone on the board use Cosgrove's stuff? I'm thinking of AfterBurn and Fat Loss University.

Cheers,
Vlad
 
P

Pavel Tsatsouline

Guest
Com. Vlad, mixing programs is a dead end. Do well with one, then try another.
 

mrwhy

New member
After Burn I and II are comprehensive programs that may be somewhat hard to mix in with the ETK program minimum (it could be done, but you would probably want to either drop the swings or drastically cut back.)

Four 4 week blocks in AB 1 (16 weeks total) and each block as the intensity/duration of the cardio and weight training increasing while in theory calories are decreasing. Tough stuff, works as promised.

I am not sure about Fat Loss University. I was under the impression that it was not a program but rather an explanation of fat loss. I could very well be wrong however.

If you are looking to cut weight by adding something, then there are several of Cosgrove's articles that talk about his use of complexes for fighters, training, and of course fat loss. You may be served just adding some barbell complexes two to three times a week. (If you are looking to go the Cosgrove route. There are many ways to skin this particular cat.)

Oh, with Afteburn, you either need a fairly well equipped home gym or plan on being at the gym itself 4 to 5 times a week just for the weight training. (Or you need to really understand the exercises/purpose enough to make good substitutions.)

Hope that helps.
 
Understood. What I am getting at is -- if I were an MMA fighter I would be doing activity in addition to ETK PM. I'm looking to substitute a type of activity that would work in conjunction with ETK PM and increase my fat loss. So far sprints seem to integrate well by placing them on variety days. I would like to add something else though, because I'm sure that I will plateau on sprints.

Does this make sense?
 
mrwhy,

Thank you for that. Yes, perusing Cosgrove's site, it seems to require a full slate of equipment. I'm thinking that Ballantyne's Turbulence Training may make a better supplement to ETK PM.
 
Pavel,

I should also add that I have yet to duplicate the fat burning effect of hill sprints by doing the ETK PM alone. That may be my fault -- I have some movement pattern instability that limits the amount of weight that I'm doing in the ETK PM. So, for now, I'm using Hill Sprints on variety days, but would like a more rigorous program to use for interval training to accelerate weight loss.

No disrespect intended to ETK. Perhaps if I were one hand swinging a 24 kg KB instead of a 12 kg KB for my swing days, the discussion would be moot.
 
D

David Whitley, RKC

Guest
Pavel,

I should also add that I have yet to duplicate the fat burning effect of hill sprints by doing the ETK PM alone. That may be my fault -- I have some movement pattern instability that limits the amount of weight that I'm doing in the ETK PM. So, for now, I'm using Hill Sprints on variety days, but would like a more rigorous program to use for interval training to accelerate weight loss.

No disrespect intended to ETK. Perhaps if I were one hand swinging a 24 kg KB instead of a 12 kg KB for my swing days, the discussion would be moot.

12kg swings? you answered your own question.
 
Dave Whitley,

Those are 12kg ONE arm swings. 30 seconds Left, 30 seconds Right, 30 seconds Rest, repeat for 12 minutes. Sorry, I should have mentioned that I had a discussion in a separate thread. I was doing 20 kg 2 handed swings and my rotational instability seems to be responding a little better to doing 1 hand swings exclusively. Otherwise, I'd be moving up to 24 kg 2 hand swings.

It was really quite silly for me to be wondering why practicing 16 kg snatches was causing me trouble until I realized that I wasn't doing 1 handed swings at all, so I was struggling with the weight and the form.

I hope that makes things a little clearer.
 
Instead of jumping around why don't you increase what you're doing on the program minimum. 12 minutes of get-ups instead of 10 and 15-20 minutes of swings alternated with jump rope or easy jogging in between. You can't skip the principle of progressive overload and expect to continue gaining. How long have you been on the program minimum? Perhaps it's time to move onto the ROP. The volume of the ROP and variety days is plenty to decrease your body fat so long as your diet is in check. I think this would be a better idea than trying to mix and match programs.
 

mc

New member
Instead of jumping around why don't you increase what you're doing on the program minimum. 12 minutes of get-ups instead of 10 and 15-20 minutes of swings alternated with jump rope or easy jogging in between. You can't skip the principle of progressive overload and expect to continue gaining. How long have you been on the program minimum? Perhaps it's time to move onto the ROP. The volume of the ROP and variety days is plenty to decrease your body fat so long as your diet is in check. I think this would be a better idea than trying to mix and match programs.


Vlad, Pavel has said don't mix programs, David has said up volume. I'm not sure of your gender, but i'm female and do single handed 24's alternating with double 24's, and i'm 5.6 and sub 60kg, so you may want to think about working up your load.

As Mike points out the variety days are there: use them for the kind of work that will let you get in the work you need to ramp up fat loss.

Weren't you asking last week about sprints for fat loss?

As we said then, keep the intervals. Use the variety days for 20mins of interval work, and if you really feel motivated, follow it with 10-20 cardio - 80-85% MaxHR. As Mike also points out, and as reading Cosgrove should make clear, diet's first and foremost; then resistance (your RoP) then intervals, intense cardio, lighter cardio. There are so many options for intervals/cardio - from swings, jumping rope, running, rowing, body weight hindu squats. loads. the choice is yours. only the intensity and time is set.

Thar ya go - don't need anything else; just application.

really.

only question: will you do it? or what is missing from this simple prescription that you still feel like you need another formula/program?

best
mc
 
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MC,

Male. (Cough). Between you and Dave Whitley I think I'll go hide in the corner now. Anyway, I'm doing the sprints but was looking for something systematic to do when sprints are an impossibility and I'm stuck indoors. As well, I hadn't thought about combining sprints and subsequent cardio so I'll try that. Skipping rope I do as warm up almost everyday, but I can only seem to get my heart rate up to around 130-140 with it.

I quite badly aggravated my thoracic/cervical/sacral area trying ROP without an adequate foundation so I'd prefer to stick with ETK PM plus supplementary exercise until I'm confident that I've had an RKC-CK and a Z Health practitioner check me out. The only snag with 20 minutes of intervals, is that, using sprints alone, I'm wiped after about 4 minutes, so I either have to find something like Ballantyne/Cosgrove to substitute or do supplemental cardio to fill out the 20 minutes. I have Keith Weber's KB Cardio, so perhaps I'll try several of those routines to round out the 20 minutes of torture.

Thanks for the motivation to get me on to the 24 kg. One additional question: Alternating 1 arm and 2 arm swings, means that your body gets a bit of a break during the 2 arm swings (I'm assuming that 1 arm swings with the same weight are more taxing). Perhaps I'll try that scheme from now on and move up weight faster.

Thanks to all!

Vlad, emasculated.
 

mc

New member
as for z/ckfms
where are you located?

As for sprints as I said on the forum last week intervals for fat loss are not sprints
sprints are flat out
intervals for FL are around ReallyGoodEffort for 8 on and 12 off for 20. You can do that with a rope or a bike or stairs or heavy swing sets. No excuses

And as for load
strength is practice of a skill
I do lots of what I call
running the bells
lining up 8-12-16-20-24
going up and going down

Its like a hill workout without the bike

And yup alternating single hand and two hand works your back differently.

Strength is practice. Let us know where you are so we can get you gpoing with the skills

mc
 

Shank

New member
Try the ONE ARM swings with the 20kg. Your body will thank you. You need to lift heavier or that little 12kg is always going to feel like 12kg.
 
Shank,

Thanks for this. Tonight I did 1arm 12kg (L), 1 arm 12kg (R), 2 arm 16 kg (Both, obviously). I went 10 minutes. Thursday nite, I think I'll move to 1 arm 16 kg (L), 1 arm 16 kg (r), 2 arm 16 kg. I go 20 reps a piece followed by a 30 second rest and then repeat.

I'll let you know how it feels, and how long I go.
 

Paul Ke

New member
How much time do you have? Could you add an hour of walking per day? That would burn some more calories without taking away from your PM. You could still do the hill sprints. I know steady-state cardio in the "fat-burning zone" is usually laughed at here, but the book "Chi Walking" makes a good point in that exercising at this intensity allows for a calorie burn without the hungry feeling afterwards because less muscle glycogen is used during the workout. Just a thought.
 
P

Pavel Tsatsouline

Guest
Com. Vlad, upgrade to a heavier KB as the Senior Instructor has suggested and your problems will be solved.
 

mrwhy

New member
Vlad -

You are going to have more succes in fat loss with the PM and hill sprints than just the PM because it is more total work. Add that to the fact that you are not really pushing the PM and you can see why you needed the hill sprints.

Here is another problem - if you really are not able to handle more than 12kg with the swings due to injury, etc. then there really is not much you will be able to do of anything. Afterburn is intense. Most programs are intense in some way.

How old are you? I mean, I know you got injured doing the ETK ROP, but that does not mean you are a total wreck with imbalances, structural problems, etc. There is not reason on earth why you should not be able to handle a bit more weight.

My advice would be to put away the 12s and pick up the 16s. You can one hand swing the 16s. You really can. You can absolutely 2 hand swing the 24s. You just have to start believing that this is something you can do.
 

faizalenu

New member
Dave Whitley,

Those are 12kg ONE arm swings. 30 seconds Left, 30 seconds Right, 30 seconds Rest, repeat for 12 minutes. Sorry, I should have mentioned that I had a discussion in a separate thread. I was doing 20 kg 2 handed swings and my rotational instability seems to be responding a little better to doing 1 hand swings exclusively. Otherwise, I'd be moving up to 24 kg 2 hand swings.

I hope that makes things a little clearer.

From an exercise perspective, weight loss = calories expended. You burn just as many calories doing one arm swings vs. two arm swings (i.e., just as much work is being done/unit time) with the same weight.

The reasons that I use swings/snatches rather than running for weight loss are:
* I can do more work doing heavy swings than I can jogging/running
* I can use more musculature swinging than running
* Minimize impact (bad lower back). This can be especially true for those with bad joints, overweight, big guys, elderly, diabetes, etc.

If you use a bell that weight 1/2 of the standard, expect half of the calorie burn. This can definitely put you from a state of losing weight to a state of gaining weight. If you can't do two-handed swings and it is not because your are really wide or really big hands, you may have some tight hamstrings -- fix the problem, don't work around it.....
 
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