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Here I go again!

G29

New member
Hello Dragon Door
Its been a loooong time since I was here but I'm glad to be back and I've now convinced myself as the superiority of POWER TO THE PEOPLE. Most books have sectons or even whole parts that are at least partially right on the money but PTTP is in my somwhat humble opinion right about every single major point it makes re: gettng larger & stronger. Here's the parts I know are correct:

1. The deadlift is KING!
2. You don't need nor should you use belts or straps.
3. Training pedal to the metal every single w/out is a sure way to burn out if not suffer a lifelong injury.
4. You do need a extra protein, but not a zero carb diet of solely protein.
5. There is no need to for any other exercises.
 
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mrdave100

New member
I'm 54 and was one of those guys that Pavel described in PTTP as not making any progress since the Eisenhower administration. Over the last three years, every single routine or program that Pavel recommends has worked for me, every one! When I go to other forums and I see his programs get trashed by internet know it alls, I just chuckle and move on.
 

ad5ly

New member
Pttp is one of my favorite programs. Why it works is because if you read and understand the book - and follow the book as it is written it is IDIOT PROOF. Simplicity with no frills. A program that has too many moving parts and is complicated is far more likely to fail. There are those people who believe that complex programs = good program. Pttp is self regulating and does leave you with guesswork. It is not complex. The only decision for you to make is what cycling scheme for you to choose. And even that decision will not be wrong - just pick one and give it a test drive. I will most likely do Pttp again. And it is a very good program...Dennis
 

MostlyFull

New member
Serge Nubret stated he never did a deadlift. Ever. He used approx 60% of his one rep max to do multiple sets of 12. He called it pump training. Pavel was against pump training, asking for 85% of 1 rep max for up to 20 sets of 5 reps on the deadlift.
 
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ad5ly

New member
Why is it that this thread is getting so many "likes". There are 65 "likes" attached to this thread, many attributed to me. I mean I suppose it is a good thread - but seriously its not THAT good. I tend to think there is a bit of trolling going on. But then I could be entirely wrong. Pttp is a very good program. But its not a religious cult. The universe of strength training is a lot bigger than just Pttp. Slavish adoration for anything can't be a good thing...Dennis
 

G29

New member
In the universe there are laws and PTTP simply expands on these laws and explains why nothing, repeat NOTHING he's done since or ever will do will come close to PTTP. Once you tell a truth you can't accomplish anything by re-telling it over and over. The deadlift is THE most effective exercise in existence ever invented nor will there there ever be anything to beat it. No other exercise will build as much muscle and strength as the DL. All PTTP did was proliferate the deadlift to a wide audience.
 

MostlyFull

New member
I was researching one of THE greatest bodybuilders who ever lived, Serge Nubret, and guess what system he used to build his herculean physique? You guessed it moderate intensity high volume. Serge would coincidentally work up to 20 sets with around 1:00 rest between sets. Isn't it interesting how oddly similar (see exactly!) this sounds to PTTP's Commando bodybuilding routine? Hmm.???

https://www.40andshredded.com/blog/serge-nubret-old-school-training

Dude, you go from "one of THE greatest bodybuilders who ever lived", to bird legs and a pancake flat ass? You need help. His workouts were nothing like Pavel. Hmm???
 

G29

New member
https://www.castironstrength.com/serge-nubrets-old-school-workout-routine/

Its very interesting IMO how someone like Serge Nubret could independently on his own come up w/ basically the same high volume routine as a freakin Russian whose about as far away from bodybuilding as a pro golfer.

To carry this further IF Serge is telling the truth, and I have no reason to suspect or justify assuming why he wouldn't be, the fact he only uses 100kg in the bench press then its safe to assume he wouldn't use at the absolute most more than 180kg (365lbs) if that in the lift of lifts.....the DEADLIFT.
 
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MostlyFull

New member
Dude, Serge Nubret was lifting and competing before Pavel was born, in 1969. That he used high volume was not uncommon. In fact, most high level bodybuilders used a high number of sets per bodypart, and worked out twice per day when in contest prep. Unlike Nubret, who NEVER used the deadlift, some did.

Most who did the deadlift used it with a wide snatch grip to build lat width, something that cannot be done on a hex bar unless you pinch grip the weights like Steve Reeves used to do. Bodybuilders used low sets and reps in the movement because they were not interested in building the entire posterior chain with the movement, just the back width.

Now, Mike Mentzer, a high level bodybuilder who used the dreaded HIT, did a set or two of deadlifts at the end of his back workout for the spinal erectors, but only six or eight reps and not to failure.

So, in summary, Serge Nubret, who used, in your quote above, 30,40, or 50 sets per bodypart, 16 sets arms, twice per week, and used 12 reps per set, NEVER DID A DEADLIFT.
He would do 8 sets of 12 reps of one exercise, with many exercises per bodypart.

He never did 20 sets of five reps of only one exercise for one bodypart and then move to the next bodypart. To somehow correlate his hard work with PTTP and say this is similar is deception at best and sheer lunacy at worst. It actually makes PTTP pale in comparison to the work necessary to build and maintain a high level phisique.

Dude, perhaps you should change your name to OCD... Obsessive Compulsive Deadlifter.
 
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G29

New member
Dude, Serge Nubret was lifting and competing before Pavel was born, in 1969. That he used high volume was not uncommon. In fact, most high level bodybuilders used a high number of sets per bodypart, and worked out twice per day when in contest prep. Unlike Nubret, who NEVER used the deadlift, some did.

Most who did the deadlift used it with a wide snatch grip to build lat width, something that cannot be done on a hex bar unless you pinch grip the weights like Steve Reeves used to do. Bodybuilders used low sets and reps in the movement because they were not interested in building the entire posterior chain with the movement, just the back width.

Now, Mike Mentzer, a high level bodybuilder who used the dreaded HIT, did a set or two of deadlifts at the end of his back workout for the spinal erectors, but only six or eight reps and not to failure.

So, in summary, Serge Nubret, who used, in your quote above, 30,40, or 50 sets per bodypart, 16 sets arms, twice per week, and used 12 reps per set, NEVER DID A DEADLIFT.
He would do 8 sets of 12 reps of one exercise, with many exercises per bodypart.

He never did 20 sets of five reps of only one exercise for one bodypart and then move to the next bodypart. To somehow correlate his hard work with PTTP and say this is similar is deception at best and sheer lunacy at worst. It actually makes PTTP pale in comparison to the work necessary to build and maintain a high level phisique.

Dude, perhaps you should change your name to OCD... Obsessive Compulsive Deadlifter.

At least your name is right Mostly Full Of It.

I never said Serge Nubret used the DL. I said IF he had considering his 100kg bench press weight he probably would have used no more than 150kg in the Deadlift. I never hypothesized Serge's use of the hexbar. In fact, I'm now using a conventional bar.

Again, I NEVER said Serge did 20 damn sets of anything! I simply quoted him. In fact iusing the same muscles used in the Deadlift he did a helluva lot more than 20 sets.

QuadsSquats – 8 sets of 12 reps/Leg Press – 6 sets of 12 reps/Leg Extension – 6 sets of 12 reps = 20 sets
Plus+

Lying Leg Curl – 8 sets of 15 reps/Standing Leg Curl – 8 sets of 15 reps = 16sets

So in total quoting Serge's own given routine he freakin' 36 sets of 12-15 reps which in effect is more than 3x the total # of reps which total 540 freakin' reps as opposed to PTTP's theoretical 5 reps x 20 sets of 100reps which is less than 1/5th the total reps. So ultimately Serge's form of volume is far more than PTTP's. But their both volume, HIGH volume so the concept applies to both.

You should change your name of FULL OF __IT.
 
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MostlyFull

New member
Dude, you are the one implying that somehow, by a miracle, Serge Nubret stumbled upon the same concepts that your man crush Pavel would bring to the people 30 years later, when in fact, at that time most bodybuilders used a high volume approach to building the physique.

Most did not do the deadlift because the thinking at the time was it was a power lifitng move, and most bodybuilders dont want to build the big bubble buttox, which draws attention away from other areas and detracts from the X look most strive to attain. Vince Gironda, trainer of champions, would not allow deadlifts, back squats, or bench pressing in his gym. He did, however, allow and even promoted the neck press.

This does not mean these men were not strong, however. Your overated Arnold began his arm workout with 250 pound curls. Mike Mentzer would curl 275 to failure as part of your dreaded HIT. Vince Gironda was known to hack squat 700 pounds in his prime.

There are many ways besides the deadlift to build the body. You are obsessing over a few pages in a book written 20 years ago. If you want to deflect and project, go ahead, but your thesis about Serge Nubret and his workout style is, has been, and will continue to be wrong. You are entiled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
 

MostlyFull

New member
And yes, I am mostly full of it. I am so glad someone finally gest my name. Thank you. However, you are overflowing. Perhaps you should be Overflowing Compulsive Deadlifter.
 

G29

New member
Vince Gironda's chicken legged, butt-less, trap-less physique certainly demonstrates what stupidity like avoiding the DEADLIFT and obsessing over the pathetic front squat results in.
https://www.greatestphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/vince_gironda.04-2.jpg

Gironda's idiocy is clearly demonsrated when compared to Roy "Glen" Hillegan's physique who was a DEADLIFT fanatic lifting 400x35. https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/...merica-title-in-los-news-footage/1B012264_013

Gironda never won any contest or even placed in the top 10 of anything. Both his training and diet advice was pure crap!

Tommi 'GLUTEZILLA" Thorvildsen loved deadlifts/back squats and he did a helluva better than Gironda's flat physique.
I, nor anyone who has the slightest idea of what he's talking about, can't put it any better than Pavel Tstatsouline's advice that the DEADLIFT provides about 80% of all one's genes allow to be gained from strength training.

PTTP page#44 > Yes, you can build huge muscles on a super abbreviated program of deads and presses! There is no need to do other drills. "If you work the heck out of the deadlift," Mr. America Tony Pandolfo used to say in his heyday in the sixties, "you’ll get growth in your upper and lower back, thighs, and hips. If you press or bench hard, your upper body will take off." Words to live by.


Gironda produced nothing but constipation w/ his zero carb / all meat & eggs crap diet advice whereas Roy Hillegan was a lifelong vegan.
http://www.senior-exercise-central.com/roy-hilligenn.html
https://www.starkcenter.org/igh/igh-v3/igh-v3-n4/igh0304d.pdf
https://www.authoritydiet.com/vince-girondas-steak-eggs-diet-lose-weight-gain-muscle/

DL's even put alot of muscle on me on the beach & I'd take my legs/calves and BUTT over Gironda's pathetic physique anyday.
 

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ad5ly

New member
You guys produced more activity on this forum in just two days than there has been in the last six months! HBDL I commend your passion. DLs are an important drill for overall full body strength. Pttp is a great program. But MostlyFull is correct too. There is no single method, program, exercise, teacher/instructor that is the best. Having an open mind about other ways is best. Just as Bruce Lee would advise. Do what is useful. Discard that which is no longer useful...Dennis
 

G29

New member
There's only ONE way to the top and thats DEADLIFTING!

Nothing else comes close. Not squats or leg presses, or C&P or olympic lifting. DL'ing is what our bodies were designed to to. Bend over and pick up heavy things. Its just a physiological fact that as long as we walk upright on two legs will never ever change.
 

G29

New member
PTTP will work for anyone with the kohonas to work as hard as DLs force you to work. The fact nothing, repeat NOTHING Pavel has done since PTTP has sold or been anywhere near as effective as PTTP speaks to just how great it is, that being an entire book primarily focused on the DL. This isn't me saying this this is the entire freakin world! It doesn't take much to figure out what's the most effective?
 
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ad5ly

New member
Yea I did a few rounds of Pttp and enjoyed it alot. Plan on doing it again in the future. I guess for me I think that all power lifting drills are meant to complement each other. I enjoy DLing. But I also enjoy OHPing and BPing. But I dislike squats. I tend to believe that its the drill that you hate the most and suck at, is the one drill you should strive the hardest to improve on. If you enjoy DLing your probably good at it. But if you hate squats perhaps you may consider improving that skill. You may find that by improving the skills with the drills you suck at just might improve your gains in the drills you love to do. Its something to consider, but as you seem to really enjoy your progress thus far with Pttp you do as you seem fit to do....Dennis
 
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