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Overtraining symptoms?

silsby68

New member
Lately my training has been less than great. Since I'm going to the HKC I've recently decided to revisit ETK and really contentrate on my form. I'm doing the ROP portion, not the program min. During the C&P Ladders I feel good(maybe a little winded because I like to minimize my rest periods), but during swings i lose my "zip". I'm only exercising 3 days so what happened to my energy? Sometimes after I'm done i get the cold chills and end up going to bed at 8:30 or so. In addition my joints have been achy and I'm just not as ready to go as I used to be. I feel WEAK! Any thoughts? Do I need to take some time off or possibly see the Doc?
 

zeppelin6601

New member
It could be overtraining, I think fatigue is definitely one of the symptoms, but maybe it could also just be a mental block? Try taking a week off and see how that goes, that should help determine if it's overtraining or not.
 

sicklameandlazy

New member
silsby68,

What is your diet like? Are you getting enough sleep? Do you rotate intensity and weight of your presses?, or are you going all out?. I had similar symptoms when I started VWC and Warrior diet, and had to play around to find the diet that fit best. I eat more almonds and cashews when I know I'll go all out.

My sessions lost zip as well when I overdid Cleans and presses. My legs got tired quickly once I started swinging. I like the PM on ETK, it is my bread and butter core workout when I cycle.
 

jeff5

New member
You say you revisited ETK, have you taken time off from Kettlebells completely? If so, you may want to revisit the PM, even if for a week or two, before moving to ETK. That might be your issues.

If not, you may want to take a solid week off and then come back and see how you feel. If you feel great, you were over training. If not, then it's something else.
 

mc

New member
silsby68,

What is your diet like? Are you getting enough sleep? Do you rotate intensity and weight of your presses?, or are you going all out?. I had similar symptoms when I started VWC and Warrior diet, and had to play around to find the diet that fit best. I eat more almonds and cashews when I know I'll go all out.

My sessions lost zip as well when I overdid Cleans and presses. My legs got tired quickly once I started swinging. I like the PM on ETK, it is my bread and butter core workout when I cycle.

really great questions.
You might or might not have hit overtraining. Generally speaking that's pretty hard to do if you've been training for under 6m-a year REALLY intensely. Doesn't really matter what it's called; it's dealing with these effects.

And that's where ya get into maybe's

WIthout knowing your eating, sleep, workout routine better, any illness/injury history it's hard to be super helpful here.

The generic back off a weak and see how you feel is definitely safe, but not necessarily optimal.

The issue of inflamation is also a biggie - which could be stress/food/sleep/anything related. so for that reason in particular, yes back off, see what happens, and if you don't feel better, your joints ok in a weak, go see your doc for some blood work. p in a cup, the whole thing.

mc
 

Boris Bachmann

New member
You certainly don't have to be training hard for six months to overtrain. I'm not saying that you ARE overtraining, but you can quickly go from overreaching to overtraining if you try to keep pushing upward and onward when what you need is recovery. Here's a list of common symptoms:
Squat Rx: Thoughts On Deloading
 

mc

New member
You certainly don't have to be training hard for six months to overtrain. I'm not saying that you ARE overtraining, but you can quickly go from overreaching to overtraining if you try to keep pushing upward and onward when what you need is recovery. Here's a list of common symptoms:
Squat Rx: Thoughts On Deloading

Boris,
you're right. good call. - i sounded perhaps too categorical to say that you can't get to overtraining in under 6 months.

Let me rephrase:
it's really really hard on a three day a week ROP routine (note, the person is not doing alternate days) where waving load is built into the progressions to imagine someone getting to overtraining in a couple months.

BUT perhaps when combined with non optimal sleep/nutrition and additional stress in life, the ROP is just a tipping point sufficient to push into over training.

The link on your site to the about.com is a cool starting place; the articles however informing that overview are 12-20 years old, and there's some really cool newer work in this space.

I'd really encoruage anyone interested in this area to take a look at a great 2004 overview from which i quote the following Basic Definition.

The general definition of overtraining is this - a syndrome occurring in athletes who train too frequently/in excess OR who may not allow for adequate recovery from intensive exercise. As a result of this inadequate recovery, performance is impaired (1). While poor sport performance is the main symptom of overtraining, other non-specific symptoms may include other oldies but goodies such as: decreased motor coordination, decreased force production, altered immune, hormonal, and autonomic activity, and emotional, mood, and sleep disturbances.


While overtraining may seem scary, you don’t just feel great one day and then wake up the next overtrained. There is a phase that precedes the overtraining syndrome called “overreaching” (or “short-term” overtraining). Overreaching is characterized by training fatigue and a reduction in maximal performance capacity that that can last a few days up to 2 weeks. Typically, overreaching is inevitable during competitive training and therefore it is usually built into the program as a planned overreaching phase (and followed by a planned recovery phase). Without the recovery plan, overreaching can, however, progress into full blown overtraining.
Again, with overtraining, you may experience the symptoms listed above. While researchers aren’t completely clear on why it occurs, many suggest that overtraining results from the accumulation of exercise and non-exercise fatigue/stress. These stressors build up leading to exhaustion and mood disturbances that can last months (2). If left unchecked, overtraining can necessitate recovery periods lasting up to a year (3). No, that’s not a typo. If you fall into full-blown overtraining, it could be a full year before you feel good again. Imagine how that might impact a pro athlete.
*As a side note, I think it’s also important to note that overtraining stress equals the sum of the training and the non-training stress factors. Although training is the major contributor to overtraining syndrome, occupational, educational, and social stressors are accumulative and play a significant role (2). That’s why someone who’s only training 3 days per week can indeed be overtrained. Most gym devotees would laugh if someone suggested that they could be overtrained while on a 3 day per week maintenance program but it’s true. If the 3 days of training adds to some serious extracurricular stress, that’s all it might take.

So apologies again for making assumptions about your load, silsby, but the current prescription applies:
back off for a bit and if that doesn't help, see your doc and think about what other stressors are going on in your life as the ROP is designed with recovery in mind - another reason it's hard to see this as being the key cause rather the final straw for overtraining.

But again - that's without knowledge of a full history :)

best
mc
 
There are objective, measurable symptoms like increased heart rate upon arising and subjective symptoms like loss of desire to train, loss of appetite, trouble falling or staying asleep, sore joints etc.

You may just need a couple of days off and/or a week of lighter training,

Severe overtraining would be harder to get to on 3 days a week, but it's all relative and individual. If you really feel dragging and achy take a few days off, eat, get some extra sleep and take a light week or two before picking it up again.

It's easy to forget that you don't get stronger during the workout, you get stronger during recovery periods. If you aren't recovering adequately or your training is overwhelming your ability to recover between workouts...you are just tearing yourself down.
 

matu

New member
PM

Also, if your goal is to attend HKC, wouldn't it be good to revisit the Program minimum? Unless I'm wrong I think that's what HKC is all about.
 

silsby68

New member
Thanks for all the responses! Part of me believes that its a little more than overtraining but that probably contributed to it. I'll take a week off to be sure and also schedule a doctors appt. while I'm at it just for my piece of mind. I'm starting to lean towards the idea that it's a medical issue and not overtraining because I'm actually stressing my body less than I did when i was doing VWC and using the bent press as my strength move. I guess time will tell. As Matu suggested perhaps I should focus on the PM until the HKC anyway, Thanks again. If it's I'll post again on this thread.If not we'll all know I don't know how to take it easy! LOL!
 

Boris Bachmann

New member
The link on your site to the about.com is a cool starting place; the articles however informing that overview are 12-20 years old, and there's some really cool newer work in this space.
I realize that about.com is not cutting edge, but for a list of symptoms it is sufficient and the basic known symptoms, as far as I know, have not changed in the past 25 years.
 

mc

New member
I realize that about.com is not cutting edge, but for a list of symptoms it is sufficient and the basic known symptoms, as far as I know, have not changed in the past 25 years.


Likely true about symptoms post the fact. Here's the thing, though: symptoms aren't a diagnosis, eh? there's quite a bit of stuff that has a lot of these symptoms.

and likewise, dealing with researchers in this space who work with elite athletes - there's still no sure fire way to tell *in time* if a person has overtrained, before they've overtrained. In other words - how can we tell if/when overtraining is coming on?

It's because of this inability to have good predictive markers that all we can do is slot in back off weeks. Even that may not be sufficient if we just get religious about "every X weeks, back off" if overtraining is about cumulative stress.

It's a really serious issue. It's sorta like dehydration amped up: once you've started to get the signs of it, it's too late to fix it. just chugging water doesn't rectify it.

This is where cns fatigue (another over used term) can come in: a way different beast than muscle fatigue, and way harder for recovery.

based on what's been said, i'd agree with the poster's diagnosis of himself: based on his discussion of stress or the lack of it in his workouts, and the lack of it in his life (if that's the case), it's hard to see what he's talking about being overtraining rather than Something Else.

The thing is, overtraining symptoms also sound alot like the effects of a virus (another neural disorder). I think we have a tendency sometimes in fitness to say: person training; says wiped out a bit = overtraining"

But overtraining is the results of cumulative stress.

IF that kind of stress isn't present, either from the workouts or the rest of one's life, then those symptoms may result from something else.

THat's sorta the main point i wanted to make in terms of what we seem to know now beyond symptoms.

best
mc
 

Boris Bachmann

New member
I'm quite aware that a given symptom could suggest a whole host of causes mc - that wasn't the point of my posts at all mc. The title of the post is "Overtraining symptoms?" and I was giving a short reply to that. The onus is on the OP to figure out if it is truly overtraining or not. If I knew more about him/her, I might venture a diagnosis, but I don't.
 
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