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respect the fat: why fat is so cool

mc

New member
After a few discussions this past week around calories, i got thinking about
a) how fat yields more energy when its bust up than carbs and protein
but in particular
b) how fat has WAY MORE energy than any other source of fuel specifically for our bodies to use as energy directly. one molecule of fat yields more than ten times the usable energy of a molecule of carbs.

So here's a bit more on the amazingness of Fat, ATP and fat burning in the flame of carbohydrates. just fyi. and a wee bit of a question as whether fat is actually hard to shed or if it's more the fat habit?

best
mc
 
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xafier

New member
I have to admit I love reading your posts and articles MC, your scientific viewpoint on diet and exercise makes for great reading!

Reading through the article I'm still wondering, are you talking about body fat being a good fuel or that nutritional fat is underrated?

Since I started on my journey of improving my lifestyle, both exercise and diet, I've learnt a lot, and I must admit I do still eat plenty of fat, but now its from good sources such as pecan nuts, eggs etc...

Hell pecan nuts are about 70% fat, but I enjoy eating them, they're a great source of calories and I've not gained any weight from eating all that "fat", as pointed out previously, its not really nutritional fat that makes you fat like most people are lead to believe.
 
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mc

New member
I have to admit I love reading your posts and articles MC, your scientific viewpoint on diet and exercise makes for great reading!

Reading through the article I'm still wondering, are you talking about body fat being a good fuel or that nutritional fat is underrated?

Since I started on my journey of improving my lifestyle, both exercise and diet, I've learnt a lot, and I must admit I do still eat plenty of fat, but now its from good sources such as pecan nuts, eggs etc...

Hell pecan nuts are about 70% fat, but I enjoy eating them, they're a great source of calories and I've not gained any weight from eating all that "fat", as pointed out previously, its not really nutritional fat that makes you fat like most people are lead to believe.

thanks for your kind words. it's delightful to hear a person likes something one does, to be sure.

that's a really good question about what kind of fat.
i guess it's betwixt and between since fat we intake gets largely processed into fuel or fuel reserves - though of course some is used for other stuff like anti-inflammatory effects, and i didn't get into how things like epa/dha and cla help mobilize fat itself. so much to consider!

so i guess, i was thinking of fat that's in adipose tissue/inter-muscular tissue and being brought out of storage to be used as fuel.

In other words: the stuff folks have and want to shed. so stored fat.

i think you could also say that nutritional fat is certainly under-rated and at least in the UK "low fat" is still the doctrine. But i've also gotten a bit fazed in the not to distant past about how carbohydrates seem to have become it seems the new fat. or evil nutrient. god, it's food!

sounds like you're doing great with your fat intake - that's super. hope you're enjoying many colors of veggies and at this time of year fresh fruits too. oh for a georgia peach in august.
or ontario peach. mm mm mm.

best
mc
 

xafier

New member
I don't much care for low fat products, I eat natural yoghurt and milk, although I'm cutting down on it and currently looking at alternatives, such as hemp milk. But personally I love full fat, I can't drink skimmed milk, its just like water!

I eat quite a lot of fruit and veg now, less meat than I used to, I get a lot of calories from nuts and seeds, especially almonds, hazelnuts, pumpkin seeds and pecans :)

I honestly think that changing my diet and picking up kettlebells have been the best things I have done for myself, cutting out junk food wasn't as hard as I thought it would be... sure I have lapses sometimes, such as eating quite a lot of "bad" food this last week whilst being on holiday in Scotland and clocking up 1500 miles in a week... but its fine for the odd occassion :)

What I'd like to know more about is all this Omega3, Omega6 stuff, DHA and EPAs etc... its all a little baffling, and I've read a fair bit recently that says that hemp is a fantastic source of nutrients with a good balance of healthy fats... whether its true or not, I have no idea!
 

x-mullet

New member
depending on my training intensity my nutrient ratios stay about the same,just manipulate the calories. Withthat said im about 50% fat 40% protein 10% or lower carbs. I was concerned about having low glycogen as I prepare for the rkc, no such animal( no pun). I bring this up because im training harder than ever in my life at 42. vwc once a week, snatch testing once a week, and brett jones protocal of 3 days ina row of all the rkc lifts inm a curcuit. Im recovering fine and actually maintaining mass, which I could care less about. We are all different, on paper I should be depleted of glycogen and not progressing, but i am. One caveat is I have most my carbs fruit veggies after my workout and I carb load one meal a week, usually on the weekend.
 

Raptor

New member
Just for your info; a couple years ago a guy walked/xski across Labrador in the dead of winter, his fuel, butter sticks and peanut butter, lots of it. The first lady to climb Everest years ago relates in an interview that the favorite food above 16000 ft was canned bacon. Atkins was right.
 

avilezj

New member
depending on my training intensity my nutrient ratios stay about the same,just manipulate the calories. Withthat said im about 50% fat 40% protein 10% or lower carbs. I was concerned about having low glycogen as I prepare for the rkc, no such animal( no pun). I bring this up because im training harder than ever in my life at 42. vwc once a week, snatch testing once a week, and brett jones protocal of 3 days ina row of all the rkc lifts inm a curcuit. Im recovering fine and actually maintaining mass, which I could care less about. We are all different, on paper I should be depleted of glycogen and not progressing, but i am. One caveat is I have most my carbs fruit veggies after my workout and I carb load one meal a week, usually on the weekend.
MC I want to ask you a question related to this post. Basically what this guy is doing is almost eliminating a macronutrient from his diet. I don't think that is a good thing to do. Low carbohydrate means less leptin. So if you are producing less leptin, that's not a good thing. What are your thoughts??
 

mc

New member
MC I want to ask you a question related to this post. Basically what this guy is doing is almost eliminating a macronutrient from his diet. I don't think that is a good thing to do. Low carbohydrate means less leptin. So if you are producing less leptin, that's not a good thing. What are your thoughts??

couple things
unless you're really counting your cals it can be hard to see exactly what ratio you're really at. i've thought i must be doing 40 30 30 for instance and it rarely if ever was when i really looked at it.

i'm a little wary of training so low carb for extended periods but, i'd say to anyone really interested in that, take a look at lyle mcdonald's excellent ketogenic diet to get the full real story about what goes on when privileging fat in lieu of carbs. His discussion of training and carb intake to support that is really bang on.

metabolic flexibility is amazing.

best
mc
 

xafier

New member
So what you need is a fat equivalent to kendal mint cake (a UK thing, basically raw sugar that tastes minty) and your sorted for mountain expeditions :D
 

x-mullet

New member
MC I want to ask you a question related to this post. Basically what this guy is doing is almost eliminating a macronutrient from his diet. I don't think that is a good thing to do. Low carbohydrate means less leptin. So if you are producing less leptin, that's not a good thing. What are your thoughts??
my bloodwork is great. liver all that. I had an ebt scan done of my heart when i retired from law enforcement.reults were 0 plaque and a 0 chance of cad. I have been on and off this for about 15 years. Also look into paul chek who has some of his athletes on less carbs, and they are healthy and excel. This is not for everyone, but it works for me
 

mc

New member
What I'd like to know more about is all this Omega3, Omega6 stuff, DHA and EPAs etc... its all a little baffling, and I've read a fair bit recently that says that hemp is a fantastic source of nutrients with a good balance of healthy fats... whether its true or not, I have no idea!

this sounds like a great topic for a post - i shall look into it.

THe thing that really gets me jazzed about omega 3's is their relation to anti-inflamation - more than even their assistance in fat mobiliazation.

What's also important in all this is how one gets these various omegas from different foods, and as you note, what their roles are.

great idea! thank.

in the meantime - a quicky for cardiac benefit: getting 1-2g. of DHA a day is great - blood plasma can't seem to take up more than that. Also while important, EPA in *some* folks seems to make them more susceptible to bruising.

but ratios of epa/dha etc are another good one.

ok, stuff to put together!
best
mc
 

Huskie

New member
mc, you're a machine. How you manage to stay this on top of things is quite beyond me. Kudos and thank you for your time and effort.

It is the whole omega 3/6 business that gets my attention.

My take:

Because of the high rates of heart disease in the Western world, the zeitgeist is understandably all about reducing inflammation and focusing on the nutrients which are more likely to reduce the likelihood of cardiovascular disease. Fair enough, most diets are lacking in Omega 3 anyway.

But Ori Hofmekler says it best in Maximum Muscle Minimum Fat:

"life is not a disease process, and human beings need not approach their daily diets as an exercise in daily health-crisis management. The fact that something is considered beneficial to the body does not mean that it is always good, and vice versa."

It seems that the anabolic response to intense and heavy exercise is all about inflammation. Temporary and localised inflammation - If it didn't have a role it wouldn't exist. And it's helped by a high Omega 6/3 ratio, but if this response becomes chronic then bad things start to happen. Conversely too high an Omega 3/6 ratio will compromise our anabolic response.

Like many things, this seems like something to be cycled or even periodised(?)

I have no objective way of telling if anything amazing is happening but I try to focus on meat, eggs and dairy after a heavy session to maximise the anabolic response, and get some fish and lots of fish and flax oil after a bout of VO2 max work to blast the arteries clean.
 

pekiti&bells

New member
What I'd like to know more about is all this Omega3, Omega6 stuff, DHA and EPAs etc... its all a little baffling, and I've read a fair bit recently that says that hemp is a fantastic source of nutrients with a good balance of healthy fats... whether its true or not, I have no idea!

recently attended a clinic held by the producers of the udo's oil
check this out for a quick primer on the omega alphabet

the main site for Udo Erasmus is here, a lot of good resources there as well

for the fish oil I dig Nordic Naturals, they produce a good line and have a lot of resources available for the curious here, I think this page may be of specific interest to the forum as it has a section titled "fitness" that obviously relates to us here in the forum

there is more research out there

basics

if you are human, you need the omegas
you should get them from different sources
you should make sure the sources are the highest quality and purest you can lay hands on in the freshest state possible

try taking a fish or plant based supplement for 60-90 days, or try the instant test my mate put me to

next time you have some tension in the body, hold a tsp of fish oil in your mouth for about 60 seconds
you will be hooked, even considering the taste lol


make you stronger, give you better endurance and higher levels of function from brain to drain
what's not to like
http://udoerasmus.com/firstscreen.htm
 

xafier

New member
If you are after an Omega 3 suppliment you should give V-Pure a go, its not based on fish oil but made from algae, which is where fish get it from in the first place! Therefore it is vegan/vegetarian friendly :)

To be honest, from the amount of nuts/seeds I eat lately and eating various meats and eggs, I probably get plenty enough good fats :)
 
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