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What could make my upper and lower legs become misaligned?

Bradley

New member
Me again.

I think I figured out what's wrong with my legs, somewhat. It feels like my femur is rotated externally. When I look at my legs in a mirror if I rotate my femur internally about 30 degrees inward my quads look more like I remember them looking when they felt awesome and normal.

Of course when I rotate my femur inward like this my lower leg is splayed to the outside.

They key it seems to me, is figuring out how to get the femur rotated internally like I can do on purpose but make it so that the lower leg is still lined up straight forward.

But the question is, if this analysis is correct, how could things have gotten out of line in this way?

I'm going to yet another PT. Probably the 20th one I've seen, and it's more of the same. I describe the above and they have me doing glute activation, stability exercises, and some manipulation, and it does literally nothing whatsoever. If I keep with it for a couple more weeks they'll report glute function better and stability improved meanwhile my symptoms will be as bad, if not worse than ever. This has been the result every other time. I get told I move better than any of the PT's other patients, but it feels like total shi*. My theory is that glute function and stability suffer due to alignment issues rather than the other way around which is what they all think.

I've wasted thousands of dollars and probably thousands of hours and lost an immense amount of quality of life for a full 10 years of my life and have far less than nothing to show for it, because I'm actually far worse off now than when I started trying to get help, and I can't convince a single practitioner yet, among literally dozens, to take my opinion of the nature of the problem seriously, despite the fact their analysis and recommendations have not in even a single instance led to even the slightest perceptible improvement.

I have no idea how to find a doctor and PT who is capable of helping me, or more importantly willing to stick with me until we figure it out, and not immediately going to shove me into a PT regime essentially identical to the 20 or so I've done already to no effect.

None of them are willing to work with me. It's just "Well I don't know. Get used to it. So long." I've driven 3 hours to NYC to see a former NFL team doctor. Even made another 3 hour trip to Connecticut per his recommendation to see another doctor. The NYC doctor had exceptional bedside manner, but he couldn't help. But it's hard to understand how a doctor who spends a great deal of time with you and listens and with whom you can actually have a conversation about your problem would refer you to the usual doctor who gives you 5 minutes and talks over you constantly.

What the hell do I do?
 

Moses Correa

New member
Me again.

I think I figured out what's wrong with my legs, somewhat. It feels like my femur is rotated externally. When I look at my legs in a mirror if I rotate my femur internally about 30 degrees inward my quads look more like I remember them looking when they felt awesome and normal.

Of course when I rotate my femur inward like this my lower leg is splayed to the outside.

They key it seems to me, is figuring out how to get the femur rotated internally like I can do on purpose but make it so that the lower leg is still lined up straight forward.

But the question is, if this analysis is correct, how could things have gotten out of line in this way?

I'm going to yet another PT. Probably the 20th one I've seen, and it's more of the same. I describe the above and they have me doing glute activation, stability exercises, and some manipulation, and it does literally nothing whatsoever. If I keep with it for a couple more weeks they'll report glute function better and stability improved meanwhile my symptoms will be as bad, if not worse than ever. This has been the result every other time. I get told I move better than any of the PT's other patients, but it feels like total shi*. My theory is that glute function and stability suffer due to alignment issues rather than the other way around which is what they all think.

I've wasted thousands of dollars and probably thousands of hours and lost an immense amount of quality of life for a full 10 years of my life and have far less than nothing to show for it, because I'm actually far worse off now than when I started trying to get help, and I can't convince a single practitioner yet, among literally dozens, to take my opinion of the nature of the problem seriously, despite the fact their analysis and recommendations have not in even a single instance led to even the slightest perceptible improvement.

I have no idea how to find a doctor and PT who is capable of helping me, or more importantly willing to stick with me until we figure it out, and not immediately going to shove me into a PT regime essentially identical to the 20 or so I've done already to no effect.

None of them are willing to work with me. It's just "Well I don't know. Get used to it. So long." I've driven 3 hours to NYC to see a former NFL team doctor. Even made another 3 hour trip to Connecticut per his recommendation to see another doctor. The NYC doctor had exceptional bedside manner, but he couldn't help. But it's hard to understand how a doctor who spends a great deal of time with you and listens and with whom you can actually have a conversation about your problem would refer you to the usual doctor who gives you 5 minutes and talks over you constantly.

What the hell do I do?

Hi Bradly, First may I say that I am very sorry for your situation. Being in pain sucks and interferes with the things that we want to do in our fitness and life.

I shudder to give you any advice on your situation with doing an assessment on you. However if you are willing to give it another shot on getting better with the help of a professional I can recommend a system that has gotten rid of my imbalances and SI joint pain.
Here is the website take a gander at it and then find a practitioner in your area:
Neurokinetic Therapy?

I would reccomend MY friend Kathy Dooley who is in NYC, if you are willing to make that hike again.

Best wishes
 

Bradley

New member
Hi Bradly, First may I say that I am very sorry for your situation. Being in pain sucks and interferes with the things that we want to do in our fitness and life.

I shudder to give you any advice on your situation with doing an assessment on you. However if you are willing to give it another shot on getting better with the help of a professional I can recommend a system that has gotten rid of my imbalances and SI joint pain.
Here is the website take a gander at it and then find a practitioner in your area:
Neurokinetic Therapy?

I would reccomend MY friend Kathy Dooley who is in NYC, if you are willing to make that hike again.

Best wishes

I went to that website. It said "dysfunctional movement patterns" stored in the brain are the cause of pain. Honestly that sounds like what I've been working on. It doesn't matter how I move. There is no pattern of movement that feels good. Ever. I feel misaligned 24 hours a day no matter what position I'm in or how I move. It's seems like a misalignment that moving differently has no effect on. Every time I've worked on "movement patterns" I get told I've improved or that I move better than their other patients and I feel literally no improvement. I feel just as weak, unstable, achy, and noisy (in the joints) as ever. and prone to injury as ever.

And my problem isn't pain so much as it is weakness, instability, and a feeling like the legs are out of alignment. And I can't get stronger in any leg exercise.

I'm very hesitant to try any "movement pattern" stuff because that's what PT has been for the last 5 years.

I really need someone local, because I can't do this on my own. It's far too frustrating.
 

Bradley

New member
Hi Bradly, First may I say that I am very sorry for your situation. Being in pain sucks and interferes with the things that we want to do in our fitness and life.

I shudder to give you any advice on your situation with doing an assessment on you. However if you are willing to give it another shot on getting better with the help of a professional I can recommend a system that has gotten rid of my imbalances and SI joint pain.
Here is the website take a gander at it and then find a practitioner in your area:
Neurokinetic Therapy?

I would reccomend MY friend Kathy Dooley who is in NYC, if you are willing to make that hike again.

Best wishes

Also that site says it's based on the notion that injury makes certain muscles shut down. I don't have an injury that initiated my symptoms. At least not for both legs. I may have torn my left quad partially, but nothing ever happened to my right leg. Both legs basically feel the same problems.
 

Bradley

New member
Stretch your outer quads and strengthen inner thighs (adductors).

Would that mean AVOID exercises like the clams and the abduction machine? Because that kind of glute work is what I've been told I need to do.

All the PT's think I'm out of alignment because my glutes aren't working right. I think glutes and other muscles aren't working right because I'm out of alignment. I've failed to get a single practitioner to seriously consider this possibility.
 

Wolfeye

Banned
That inner thigh suggestion sounds like it might work. Be careful though- too much work on that will make them rub together & turn your boxers in mini-skirts! Ask me how I know, go ahead. Doing squats with your toes pointed out diaganolly will work your inner thighs, apparently.
 

Bradley

New member
That inner thigh suggestion sounds like it might work. Be careful though- too much work on that will make them rub together & turn your boxers in mini-skirts! Ask me how I know, go ahead. Doing squats with your toes pointed out diaganolly will work your inner thighs, apparently.

Can't, or rather, shouldn't, do squats. At all.
 

Moses Correa

New member
Also that site says it's based on the notion that injury makes certain muscles shut down. I don't have an injury that initiated my symptoms. At least not for both legs. I may have torn my left quad partially, but nothing ever happened to my right leg. Both legs basically feel the same problems.

What did you read? I have been taught that the problem or injury comes from lack of stability and motor control, then pain and injury as a result of dysfunction.
I understand your lack of faith in practitioners, due to your past experiences. But it seems like even you understand that something isn't working right on a muscle skeletal level.
How can you know what to fix however without an assessment?
Everyone can tell you their opinions on here, but what is your guarantee that it will work?

I know personally, that most of instability issues have stemmed out of a muscle in a pattern not firing at the right time or at all.
 
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ComradeCat

New member
This thread reminds me of what I see a lot of on guitar forums when it comes to troubleshooting a guitar or amplifier problem. There are so many variables and possibilities that any advice given can potentially be the solution to your problems or pile on even more problems.

One thing tho, have you tried to get in contact with Kelly Starrett? I know he's located way out in San Francisco, but what I've read of his work suggests that he tends to be able to solve really confounding issues.
 
What did you read? I have been taught that the problem or injury comes from lack of stability and motor control, then pain and injury as a result of dysfunction.
I understand your lack of faith in practitioners, due to your past experiences. But it seems like even you understand that something isn't working right on a muscle skeletal level.
How can you know what to fix however without an assessment?
Everyone can tell you their opinions on here, but what is your guarantee that it will work?

I know personally, that most of instability issues have stemmed out of a muscle in a pattern not firing at the right time or at all.


As Moses said earlier, it is really not possible for any of us to give you advice without seeing you in person and screening you.
I know it's frustrating and expensive to find a solution to a complex problem.
Another system you might try is Rolfing -Structural Integration: Rolf Institute of Structural Integration
It works by realigning the muscles on the skeletal system and therefore may help to realign your muscles and allow them to function normally.

At this point it is a matter of finding the right approach for YOU. What works for one person does not necessarily work for another.

I do agree that you need to release your external rotator muscles as you strength your internal rotators and adductors.
What ever you do don't give up!
 
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