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What's the difference between S & S and S & S 2?


I was trying to look up the goals & how to time things & I saw that there was a 2.0 version. What's the difference?

I saw a thing about using the talk test in between sets to see if your tests aren't long enough or if you're doing it too heavily, namely being able to say the pledge of allegiance in between (at least for Americans).

Is that it? I saw that it was heavily revised & wasn't a minor rewrite, but I've already seen Q & D. It sounds like it ads the ideas from that to the S & S exercises.


New member
Talk test or similar has always been part of it. You are supposed to rest as needed EXCEPT on days you are doing test for time. Have not read #2 but from reading Strong First forums, one difference seems to be that there are now included a goals of Timeless Simple and Timeless Sinister i.e. you can to the full amount of work with that weight KB but without worrying about how long it takes. Then once that is achieved, you go for time limited execution.


Thanks. I've been using a 3-minute rest between swings & adding get-ups. Seriously prefer doing get-ups with sandbags...


New member
It basically shifts the focus from arguably"conditioning-first" to a, more aptly branded, "strength-first" program. The first edition emphasized reaching the timed standards with each weight before working in a heavier bell. The second edition stresses building a strength reserve then occasionally testing the Timed standards with a lighter bell, but if I remember correctly, it really isn't recommended to test the timed standards with anything less than the 32. It also gives a structured step loading progression on when to add a couple sets with the next bell size up. Basically, slow and steady, almost easy strength style approach. It also advocates the "timeless simple" and "timeless sinister" goals as the new standard, whereas the "timed simple and sinister" goals are now viewed as an optional "challenge."
To give some personal experience, I started with basically zero dedicated KB specific training other than 2H swings here and there; but a good decade + of regular barbell, DB, gym training. I did the program basically by the book, building up to 40kg on the TGUs and owning timeless simple before ever even testing the timed simple challenge. I was able achieve the timed simple challenge on my first attempt. I progressed by the book, adding a heavier sized bell for 2 sets every 4 weeks or so. There was a 6-8 week period where I was quite ill, and dropped back to just using the 24kg bell for both the swing and the TGU for that time, which added probably 4-6 weeks into the length of time I was on the program. So it took me about 8 months (probably would have taken closer to 6 months without getting sick) being patient and progressing by the book (4 weeks with each bell before slowly incorporating the next bell up for a couple sets every 4 weeks). So it encourages a slower progression, focused on really owning the bells and keeping the primary goal getting stronger, rather than being more geared towards HIIT. I think StrongFirst's new A&A programming really influenced this change.
1 last big change. The new addition recommends doing 2H swings every 2nd or 3rd session. I'd highly recommend spending the $10-$20 and purchasing the second edition. I think it's a big upgrade from the first book.
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